Hi all,
New to this very nice site. Have a 24v engine from 164 I have installed in a LB Stratos kit and am having issues starting her up . Suspecting that the ECU needs a signal from the immobilizer ( which I am not using) to start. See that ECU pin 81 goes to the immobilizer controller . Have tried grounding it to no avail . Does anyone know if putting 12 volts to that will help or hurt??
It was a long time back, but I did mess with a 24V 164 that had 'issues'. I recall that the immobiliser (assuming it is the OEM Alfa CODE system) communicates with the ECU using a serial protocol rather than just a simple volts or ground type setup. I also recall that the two units are coded together - you can't mix & match parts without getting the pair synced up.
Lacking the CODE unit, unless you can get the ECU reprogrammed, I don't think you are likely to get any joy with it. Is Gus from Alfatune still on here? He could certainly advise if not actually sort it for you.
You may be looking at sourcing a complete ECU/CODE/keys set, or perhaps going aftermarket ECU to get you going.
Thanks for the info Chris. I can check with them .
I do know of another kit that is using the 24v engine and ECU and had no problems , so it can work . He has a different part number of ECU , I might look into that as well . The funny thing is I even have a pulse from the ECU to the ignition amplifiers and a running fuel pump !
I guess it depends on whether the donor had the CODE immobiliser or not. The 155 V6 from the same era had the same ECU, but came without CODE until 1996. I was fault finding on my own 155 many years back and swapped in a non-CODE ECU. It ran fine.
Well here is what is strange. It is firing the injectorsvas we smell fuel from the exhaust pipes when we crank it over. Plus, I can detect a rhythmic pulse from the ECU at the inputs to the ( new ) ignition amplifiers that trigger the coils!!
12 volts to the coils and grounds verified too ! Now what ??
I bought the engine ( a new one), ecu, fuel pump etc all from an Alfa specialist in Detroit I have know and worked with for years . The ecu and harness came from a running car. The pump is a new Bosch pump, I have not checked fuel pressure but we smell fuel from the exhaust as we crank the engine over . We did remove a plug & coil and checked for spark during cranking and have none . I have run through tests many tests in the Alfa manual and have found no issues wrong . Even tried another ecu, same result .
I was once asked to help start a V6 (a 12V a mate owned). He’d fitted a low pressure pump. It stank of fuel but wouldn’t run. Not surprised given it only had 2psi of fuel pressure.
He has been very helpful, supplied me with a second ecu to try. All the coils ,relays, ignition amplifiers, fi/spark harness is new . I will check fuel pressure to be sure , assumed it was good with a new pump, but things happen !!
Well, fuel pressure about 40psi when cranking, check valve holds it at about 35 afterwards.
checked it twice . Tried to get engine codes out but doesn’t seem to record at cranking speed. Tried both ECU’s, same result . !?!?
Check for a spark - remove a coil pack and rig it up so the wiring is restored and the plug base is grounded. Crank it and look for a fat healthy spark.
Check for an injector pulse - a NOID if you can get one, or failing that, rig up a bulb or LED across an injector. Crank and look for a pulse.
If it has fuel and sparks, it has to run...unless there is something fundamentally wrong with the mechanical basics - cam timing being most likely, but check compression too.
Given it was a North America car, I'd guess the donor had the check engine light and push switch on the column shroud? If so, you could replicate that for easy code reading. I fitted one to my 12V V6 when I had one on the OEM ECU in the Stratos to start with.
I found the lead for the check engine light and hooked it up, however at cranking speed i am not sure if the ecu will detect codes . I tried to retrieve them and the light did not blink as I was expecting .
Well, the engine now starts !!! A friend of a friend had an experienced engine guy I heard of . He stopped by and went through his non start sequence and found what I had thought I checked and missed, a bad relay !! Kind of embarrassing as I’m sure I checked it , but maybe I was looking for bigger problems , a mistake easily made . The other good news is the immobilizer fears I had are unfounded . I have tried two ECU’s now that my coils have power and they both work fine .
Thanks for all your help and ideas , they are appreciated for sure .
Don't fret over missing stuff. I spent over 2 years off & on looking for a lambda fault on my old 155 V6. Finally found it - it was the very first part I had inspected, tested and declared OK. A fuse. When testing I had mistaken the intermittently buzz of the continuity test as poor contact with the fuse blades. It wasn't, it was the fuse link being broken internally and the two parts moving about as I tested.
Result on the immobiliser too - they can be a pain.
You seem very knowledgeable re. The ECU and Code boxes on mid '90s 164s with 24v 3.0ltr engine.
I have taken the engine, ECU and Code box from a late '95 164 that was low mileage and I drove about 2000 miles before removing. The engine is now in a HAWK stratos that I am building . If I can get the engine started - I am on the home straight
Is there anyway you might be able to advise/confirm that I am about to wire my yellow CODe box into the ECU correctly to get my V6 3.0ltr engine running...
Vin : ZAR16400006323467
The car is 1995/6
Am I correct that of the 8 pins from the code box these are the important ones;
Pin 3 : fused live
Pin 4 : Ground
Pin 6 : ECU
Pin 8 : ignition live
You seem very knowledgeable re. The ECU and Code boxes on mid '90s 164s with 24v 3.0ltr engine.
I have taken the engine, ECU and Code box from a late '95 164 that was low mileage and I drove about 2000 miles before removing. The engine is now in a HAWK stratos that I am building . If I can get the engine started - I am on the home straight
Is there anyway you might be able to advise/confirm that I am about to wire my yellow CODe box into the ECU correctly to get my V6 3.0ltr engine running...
Vin : ZAR16400006323467
The car is 1995/6
Am I correct that of the 8 pins from the code box these are the important ones;
Pin 3 : fused live
Pin 4 : Ground
Pin 6 : ECU
Pin 8 : ignition live
Sorry...I am the same person you've been conversing with on the SEC site, alias there is NoCorseChris (I used to own a CAE Corse Strat replica, and had the alias CorseChris, but after selling it, NoCorseChris seemed more apt....)
So, nothing new to add really, other than to confirm that what you have there looks like it should work to the best of what limited info I have on that version/variant of the ECU.
And as Guy says, Craig is usually pretty spot on with this stuff as intends to be issues he has had to resolve himself.
Are you a member of the Stratos Entusiasts Club - If not it's worth joining but you may be able to see this thread about wiring the yellow immobiliser box into the car, 24v Alfa 164 motor.
I've got a 166 24v to plug in at some point in the future - Panda to fix/MOT followed by a 159 to fix followed by the Beta restoration at which point I'll be gutting the Stratos again. I'll be using an Emerald system for this, whilst I have a 166 ECU I haven't got the related code boxes and key sensors!
Craig is usually pretty good at this stuff. Is there some confusion creeping in somewhere? Good luck getting it going!
I can think of a few reasons not to use that engine tbh, but I suspect you don’t want to hear that.
Hopefully it’ll ‘just work’. I can’t see it doing any damage being wired the way you propose, worst case it just won’t run, obviously!
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