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Discussion Starter #1
Hi,

I'm looking for a replacement engine for my 1996 164 3.0 24v Cloverleaf. All signs are pointing towards bottom end issues on my current engine - it sounds fairly awful and is really down on power. I took it for an MOT the other day (first time I've driven the car, it sat in storage for 8 years or so) and the garage agreed that it sounds like it's got bearing problems. They said it was knocking noticeably during the emissions test...

I think the simplest solution is to swap out the engine for a used one. Either that or repair my bottom end but I'm not overly keen on that idea at the moment. Maybe somebody has a 3.5 engine for sale 馃 yeah right!

I was also wondering if the bottom end from a 3.0 166 or GTV would swap straight over and work OK with my 164 heads??
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Oh, and before anyone mentions it... I have replaced the cambelt (plus tensioner and idlers) the auxiliary belt (plus the tensioner and idlers) waterpump, thermostat, spark plugs, oil and filter, air filter, coolant, etc etc... I use factory tools and I've not had a problem in the past. So I am very confident the issue is not timing-related. The car still drives OK, and has some power... But the engine obviously isn't happy.
 

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Oil pressure looks ok (4 bar at cold start, around 1 bar as it warms) but the engine sounds pretty unwell, and the garage said it was knocking quite badly during the emissions test. It seems the problem worsens as the engine warms.
 

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Strange. I don't know if the bottom end of the 24V is the same as the 12V, but the latter are pretty bomb proof. It's unusual not to be losing oil pressure if there's a bottom end problem. Also, the power loss is unusual. Normally they go pretty well (up until something lets go!) because there no friction. Hopefully, someone who knows a bit more about engines will see this and come up with some suggestions or tests. Maybe worth asking on the American site too? I take it this happens in and out of gear, with the clutch up or down?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I was under the impression that the V6 bottom ends were really strong regardless of 12v or 24v type, though of course that doesn't mean issues like this are unheard of.

When I first ran the engine and noticed it sounded a bit rough, the first thing I checked was the oil pressure, but it seemed OK. The car does still pull OK, but you can definitely tell there are some horses missing. It still rises up the rev range though I didn't push it too far of course.

Yep the engine sounds/behaves the same regardless of whether it's idling on the driveway or being driven.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm leaning towards rebuilding the engine, I didn't want to do this initially as I don't have a garage or workshop where I can work under-cover. Better yet if I can get my hands on a spare unit, I'll rebuild that instead I think. I've done this before on a 3.0 12v as a bit of a learning experience so it's not totally new to me.
 
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I admire your spirit! Sadly, I have very little experience of the engine itself. I've been lucky enough not to have any failures. My last 12V was a bit low on oil pressure (the light would just flicker on if I'd been thrashing it on the motorway and then came off at a slip road and let it idle at the junction). Mind you, it did have a quarter of a million miles on it! I don't know what to suggest, other than maybe put a mechanical oil pressure gauge on there to double-check. If the knock is pretty regular at idle, can you pull off a coil connector to each cylinder in turn and see if the removal of any one particular lead alters the noise? Also, maybe take the cam covers off before removing the engine completely and check the valve timing and valve clearances?
 

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Hello - Cloverleaf engines ive killed two both crank issues

The first one was my fault and was my first 164QV - I had poor quality oil in the car and it didnt like that in combo with some hard driving.

The second one started to knock and got louder and louder so i sold it as repair or parts car - wish i didnt as it had the recaro interior.

The good news is I do have a spare 164 24v QV engine that I got with my 164 when I bought it. With my past I was glad to have a spare engine just in case.

However I have been contemplating selling my 164 and if I do then the engine will be up for sale too - hopefully I will have decided in the next few weeks so if your in no rush I will be in touch.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the message - it's interesting to hear of other people noting crank/bearing issues on 24v 164s. I haven't heard many cases of the same issues on later V6 Alfas?

Anyhow. You must be feeling sore for selling a parts car with Recaros - I'll be looking out for a set of those in the future. I had them in my Q4 and my Dad had them in his 1994 QV - they're amazing seats, so much adjustability! The only thing that would top them is a pair of Recaro Classic/C81 seats, but they're big money now.

Thanks for the offer of the engine but I've managed to source one which should hopefully be with me soon. I'll do a few other jobs while the engine is out - clutch, engine mounts, perhaps brake pipes, etc.
 
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