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Both have 200 HP stock but I think the TBI might be a shade lighter due to the weight reduction Alfa done on the model , it would be down to the quality of the re-map and the driver really as they are close...the TBI has a lot of Torque as well and it's available from straight off the revs too...

In the spirit of this thread , when I'm out on Sunday morning I'll stick on my Fusion app and record what 0 - 60 time she can do with the re-map.
 
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Both have 200 HP stock but I think the TBI might be a shade lighter due to the weight reduction Alfa done on the model , it would be down to the quality of the re-map and the driver really as they are close...the TBI has a lot of Torque as well and it's available from straight off the revs too...

In the spirit of this thread , when I'm out on Sunday morning I'll stick on my Fusion app and record what 0 - 60 time she can do with the re-map.
Just checked the specs and the 2.4 is 1585KG vs 1430KG of the TBI. So over 150KG difference. Great, look forward to seeing it! Can't help but feel the 0-60 of the TBI would be much better if you could reach 60 in 2nd. Probably knocking off about half a second at least.
 

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My Ti was originally 210hp stock and was lightened by Alfa from the Lusso model.
I don't even try 0 to 60 as my 159 only spins the wheels in first and if damp or wet it spins in second. Also I don't want to wreck the clutch and drive train. I only floor it when required in third gear at 2000 rpm and upward. The torque at that point is tremendous all the way up to red, and if on a duel carriage way or motorway, put in 4th or 5th depending on speed, and see what can come past, normal only something very expensive.
 

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For those of you interested in whats it's possible to make with a Tbi engine with a downpipe, stock air filter box with BMC air filter, magnaflow sports kat, novitec rear boxes and the rest of exhaust system stock and raised the rev limit to real 6500rpm, now the second gear can make 100km/h (60mph):blabla:


It's possible to make a little bit more power, around 270hp and 420nm of torque or higher, because the clutch can handle with 450nm.

Now i fitted on my car a exhaust valve box in the middle of the car and a complete 70mm stainless steel exhaust line with 200cell sports kat.

When i have the last result of the dyno i will post here.
 

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Good luck with the tuning mods have seen some of your videos on Youtube-the gearbox fitted is the M32 -the 32 part relates to 320 NM maximum rating for torque that the gearbox will withstand so be careful!
Good Luck
 

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.....and it can't stand anything like that ...in fact is can only just handle the standard torque load...as proven by the very high failure rate with these boxes.
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Good luck with the tuning mods have seen some of your videos on Youtube-the gearbox fitted is the M32 -the 32 part relates to 320 NM maximum rating for torque that the gearbox will withstand so be careful!
Good Luck
Wrong....
As long as you’re not doing 0-100 like a mental and keep it over 2500 rpm especially in 5th and 6th when accelerating hard, theres no issue what so ever with the M32.
Ask Gus at alfatune......iirc he’ve done some M32 equipped cars with +300hp / 500 nm. Will try to find his post...
 

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Not wrong....Just do a search on here...they fail all the time with even with just standard 2.2 petrol and 1.9 diesels...let alone after tuning. Poor design and not enough oil as standard.
 

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No he's not really wrong as such , yes the M32 gearbox is known for it's weaknesses but that doesn't mean if it is maintained and driven correctly that it can't handle more power. I think it is rated up to a max of 420 NM , the standard oil recommended Alfa was 2 liters when it should actually have 3 liters and a better quality GL4 oil like Redline , also oil should be changed every 30k miles , they also recommended that the TBI has an oil change at 21k and it's actually more like 8k , they also overlooked the protection on the turbo piping...so lots they got wrong that owners now know about and should be caring for correctly.

Mine had a rebuild at 60k before I bought it and since I've had it I've maintained all those components , gearbox gives no trouble and car has been re-mapped for over a year now.

You have to know how to drive it correctly , planting your foot in 6th and in very low revs is not only bad for this car (Any Turbo car) it's just plain silly...drop her into 4th and higher revs and move up in the sweet spot , be aware of the cars power bands and long term damage and you'll be grand...Not the best gearbox no , but shouldn't be a game over situation when it comes to tuning the TBI so long as you know what your doing.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
Couldn’t have said it better. No issues with the m32 box on a tuned TBi with 3 liters correct oil and if driven correctly. All gearboxes could fail if driven like a fool...
 

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No he's not really wrong as such , yes the M32 gearbox is known for it's weaknesses but that doesn't mean if it is maintained and driven correctly that it can't handle more power. I think it is rated up to a max of 420 NM , the standard oil recommended Alfa was 2 liters when it should actually have 3 liters and a better quality GL4 oil like Redline , also oil should be changed every 30k miles , they also recommended that the TBI has an oil change at 21k and it's actually more like 8k , they also overlooked the protection on the turbo piping...so lots they got wrong that owners now know about and should be caring for correctly.

Mine had a rebuild at 60k before I bought it and since I've had it I've maintained all those components , gearbox gives no trouble and car has been re-mapped for over a year now.

You have to know how to drive it correctly , planting your foot in 6th and in very low revs is not only bad for this car (Any Turbo car) it's just plain silly...drop her into 4th and higher revs and move up in the sweet spot , be aware of the cars power bands and long term damage and you'll be grand...Not the best gearbox no , but shouldn't be a game over situation when it comes to tuning the TBI so long as you know what your doing.

Right so there is nothing wrong with the box despite the very high failure rate in pretty much every car (not just Alfa s) that they are bolted to and the many that have failed on stock members cars on here. And you have to drive in such a way that it's gentle on the box...yeah..great...sounds like an ideal candidate for a tuned engine..lol. You should be able to drive is how you feel and it should be able to take full throttle in any gear...or it's not really fit for purpose . And yours was rebuilt at just 60 k. Yet it's ok to hande more power. Great logic. And exactly why I chose a 159 with an F40....which has had one oil change in 143,000 and its as tight as a drum on a tuning boxed 2.0.
 

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Discussion Starter #33 (Edited)
Sorry, was this thread about your rant about m32 gearboxes?

And.....

Out of interest, have you seen any 159 1750TBIs with knackered gearboxes yet?
No I haven't
Fitted a couple of Quaife diffs and that makes a big difference to the handling

Ned
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-159-brera-andamp-946-spider/568946-159-1-9-jtdm-m32-gearboxes.html#post8277121

Anyway, I’m not worried of my gearbox and really don’t care if others are. All cars have issues.
 

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Right so there is nothing wrong with the box despite the very high failure rate in pretty much every car (not just Alfa s) that they are bolted to and the many that have failed on stock members cars on here. And you have to drive in such a way that it's gentle on the box...yeah..great...sounds like an ideal candidate for a tuned engine..lol. You should be able to drive is how you feel and it should be able to take full throttle in any gear...or it's not really fit for purpose . And yours was rebuilt at just 60 k. Yet it's ok to hande more power. Great logic. And exactly why I chose a 159 with an F40....which has had one oil change in 143,000 and its as tight as a drum on a tuning boxed 2.0.
I don't mean any offence here but I'd take a 159 TBI that requires additional maintenance over a JTD any day of the week , they are a much better drive IMO and I didn't say they don't have issues in fact I said they do have issues and require additional looking after. Yes , mine had a rebuilt on the gear synch's at 60k the previous owners also ran her a liter below correct oil level and never changed the oil so I'm not surprised it needed a re-build...Hopefully under my ownership or another Alfa head with knowledge it won't need it again.

Every car has something , every car from every designer has one or two issues that need addressing it the lads who don't look into this or do anything about preventing the issues that more often than not have a failure and then complain it's the cars fault...Turbo petrols are not meant to have themselves horsed out of it in any gear you like , particularly low revs it puts a lot of strain on the gearbox M32 or M40 , yes the M40 is a better box and may take more pressure but long term that gearbox or any other will wear out if you drive like that...yes Turbo cars should be driven different to NA cars both to get the best out of their performance and to maintain their life span , if you own one and don't even know that you are damaging your car and should be driving a big engine NA car.
 

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LOL!...

...and just to set the record...I have the 2.0 JTDm (Euro 5) not the 1.9 or 2.4 (Euro 4) so by then they had massively improved and have none (relatively)of the DPF, swirl flap, EGR issues the earlier ones had. Not that any of that would stop me having a 2.4...great motor. I too like the TBi and would have preferred one (test drove two) but could not justify (or afford to be honest) the far lower MPG with the miles I do. I did however prefer in the instant torque of the 2.0 over the slightly laggy bottom end of the TBi. My car pushes out 360nm of torques as stock at 1750rpm...your TBi stock gives 320 at an, admittedly, impressive 1400rpm. With the tuning I now have the same horses as a stock Tbi...but 425MN of torque. The response from just of idle is amazing!

...yes off topic I know but I could not less the diesel slagging go unanswered!! And yes it is the cars fault....yes routine maintenance is required on all cars to keep them running well and all (most) cars have issues. Not so many need more gearbox oil than they came with (dont forget most modern gearboxes NEVER have a scheduled oil change these days as the oil lasts the life of the engine (my 170,000 miles Merc CLK 200K for example....changing it now will cause more problems that it cures!!))and a rebuild and 60 - 80 k!!


Each to his own and Ill leave it there!
 
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Despite the M32 being an inherent weakness of the TBI, it really doesn't cost the earth to resolve. A & S Clutch Technology in Halifax change them all day long and only charge £275 to replace the bearings and the box will be like new again.

If you compare this to the potential problems lurking in a modern diesel engine (DPF, EGR, swirl flaps, DMF etc) it really does put this once in an owner lifetime cost into perspective. I say once in an owner lifetime as most people don't keep their cars any longer than 5 years.

My car is on 74K and the box is perfect *touches wood* and if it started failing tomorrow I would happily pay £275 knowing that it would be good for another 9 years. Of course tuning the engine will see the failure rate increase but even if this meant changing the bearings every 50K compared to 80K I don't see this as a massive problem.
 

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I wasn't slagging off Diesels , they have their purpose and if I had to do huge miles I'd consider one but not for a drivers car not for me anyway despite the NM numbers they just don't feel the same as petrols or sounds the same and that is a big thing for me, but I've nothing against them as such.

And you said yourself above , sure look at the issues the early models had!... There's a limit to what I'd buy vs reliability (RX-8 for example ) but the TBI gearbox honestly doesn't worry me enough to turn me off the car it's just something to be aware of and if the box fails despite that sure I'll rebuild it, no big deal.

I read that the 2 liters of oil was something to do with Alfa trying to lower emissions or come within standards but they shouldn't be doing that at the expense of owners or the cars needs, the main issue early on the TVI with re-calls was blown turbo chargers due to the wrong oil and wrong intervals they had an awful lot of re-calls on this...In fact , the engine itself is a little flawed it shouldn't require an oil change every 8k miles but history has now thought us...it does...still though I wouldn't change it I love driving the car..
 

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Discussion Starter #38 (Edited)
For those of you interested in whats it's possible to make with a Tbi engine with a downpipe, stock air filter box with BMC air filter, magnaflow sports kat, novitec rear boxes and the rest of exhaust system stock and raised the rev limit to real 6500rpm, now the second gear can make 100km/h (60mph):blabla:
It's possible to make a little bit more power, around 270hp and 420nm of torque or higher, because the clutch can handle with 450nm.
Now i fitted on my car a exhaust valve box in the middle of the car and a complete 70mm stainless steel exhaust line with 200cell sports kat.
When i have the last result of the dyno i will post here.
Would love to see you do some real life mid acceleration runs and post videos and times here:

60-100 in 3 gear
60-100 in 4 gear
80- 120 in 4 gear
80 -120 in 5 gear

Do them proper on flat road. Then we can compare the Novitec Powerjet and your remap - and the Golf 7 GTI.

I stopped believing in dyno results. They are in 99% cases not comparable.
 

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