[hdvp]

159 Tbi compared to GTI class

Did some mid acceleration videos, testing performance of my Alfa 159 TBi with Novitec [email protected]

Several attempts were made - and no "downhill" cheating.

Data and charts attached - all data are found from zeperfs.com and automobile-catalog.com.
Compared to these listed "GTI" cars it does pretty good in mid acceleration.

Alfa Romeo 159 TBi
Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV
Alfa Romeo Giulietta QV TCT
Ford Fiesta ST
Golf 7 GTI

60-100 km/h in 4th gear: 4.6 sec

80-120 km/h in 4th gear: 4.8 sec

80-120 km/h in 5th gear: 6.1 sec

 

[hdvp]

My 159 Tbi Novitec is on pair with this Golf 7 GTI Performance 230 hp

3 gear: 4,1 sec
4 gear: 5,2 sec
5 gear: 6,1 sec

 

[m_rask]

How does it compare with the standard Tbi numbers?

 

[peagles]

Great, comprehensive comparison. I am on the lookout for a 2nd hand Powerjet for my TBI as coming from a MK5 GTI the TBI feels a bit slow in comparison! If it can match the performance of a MK7 GTI I will be very impressed. If I can't source a Powerjet I will probably go down the custom remap route which should probably see even higher gains.

 

[hdvp]

How does it compare with the standard Tbi numbers?

It's in the sheet..

Great, comprehensive comparison. I am on the lookout for a 2nd hand Powerjet for my TBI as coming from a MK5 GTI the TBI feels a bit slow in comparison! If it can match the performance of a MK7 GTI I will be very impressed. If I can't source a Powerjet I will probably go down the custom remap route which should probably see even higher gains.

"Feel" simply doesn't justice how fast a car really is. Facts and numbers do.
From 0-200 km/h my Novitec 159 Tbi is slower than a Golf 7 GTI. But it's just as fresh in all mid accelerations scenarios.
Worst scenarios with the 159 is from a total standstill where it got issues putting the power to the tarmac. It's heavy and the diff is ****.

 

[peagles]

It's in the sheet..




"Feel" simply doesn't justice how fast a car really is. Facts and numbers do.
From 0-200 km/h my Novitec 159 Tbi is slower than a Golf 7 GTI. But it's just as fresh in all mid accelerations scenarios.
Worst scenarios with the 159 is from a total standstill where it got issues putting the power to the tarmac. It's heavy and the diff is ****.

Completely agree. As the 159 is a relatively large and refined car your senses are somewhat dulled so it feels slower than it actually is. I have always found the TBI to be best in 3rd gear above 3.5K where it really gets into it's stride, I can see how it could easily hit 150MPH with how strong it feels above 100MPH. Off the line acceleration really gets on my nerves though and I wish it would sound more like a 4C!

 

[hdvp]

If I can't source a Powerjet I will probably go down the custom remap route which should probably see even higher gains.

Custom remap could give slightly higher hp gains. I've seen claimed figures of 250 hp /400 Nm.
The main difference is a map can increase the rev limit from stock 5750 til some 6350 RPM, which a box can't do.

Squadra tuning ECU maps stops at 232 hp / 382 Nm for the 159 Tbi.
Apperently they won't consider it safe to go any higher on this engine.

 

[peagles]

Custom remap could give slightly higher hp gains. I've seen claimed figures of 250 hp /400 Nm.
The main difference is a map can increase the rev limit from stock 5750 til some 6350 RPM, which a box can't do.

Squadra tuning ECU maps stops at 232 hp / 382 Nm for the 159 Tbi.
Apperently they won't consider it safe to go any higher on this engine.

Do you know what there reasons are for this? Is it down to the torque limit of the M32 gearbox? Or is there a weakness within the engine which is unsafe to push any harder?

 

[peagles]

Custom remap could give slightly higher hp gains. I've seen claimed figures of 250 hp /400 Nm.
The main difference is a map can increase the rev limit from stock 5750 til some 6350 RPM, which a box can't do.

The rev limiter cuts in at 6250RPM on mine and it's completely standard.

 

[hdvp]

The rev limiter cuts in at 6250RPM on mine and it's completely standard.

Strange - I don't think I have never had mine over 5800

 

[peagles]

Strange - I don't think I have never had mine over 5800

Maybe the UK spec cars had a different map on them?

 

[Lastbreath]

My rev limit is 6250 with the solid white line starting after that and she goes up to the 6250 as well...

 

[hdvp]

Maybe you’re right and boost just stops at 5750, and remap just stil add boost up to 6250. I don’t know.
Nothing happens over 5500 on standard map.

 

[Lastbreath]

Also , looking at figures this morning from the TBI vs Guilietta QV and the claimed weight between them isn't as much as people make out. I think the TBI was around 1470 KG and the GQV 1440 KG. I know the TBI underwent a weight reduction compared to the other models and shed around 100 KG in the process.

So in theory , a re-mapped 159 TBI with 235 HP and similar in weight should be hitting almost the same low 7 0 - 100 numbers that the GQV does right?

My car is re-mapped and certainly feels quick to 60 , might be time to whip out that OBD Fusion performance test later on and do some numbers...

 

[peagles]

Also , looking at figures this morning from the TBI vs Guilietta QV and the claimed weight between them isn't as much as people make out. I think the TBI was around 1470 KG and the GQV 1440 KG. I know the TBI underwent a weight reduction compared to the other models and shed around 100 KG in the process.

So in theory , a re-mapped 159 TBI with 235 HP and similar in weight should be hitting almost the same low 7 0 - 100 numbers that the GQV does right?

My car is re-mapped and certainly feels quick to 60 , might be time to whip out that OBD Fusion performance test later on and do some numbers...

I think the 159 TBI is 1430KG and the Guilietta QV is 1320KG so over 100 kilos difference or the difference between having a large passenger in the car with you!

What figures is your car before and after remap?

 

[hdvp]

So in theory , a re-mapped 159 TBI with 235 HP and similar in weight should be hitting almost the same low 7 0 - 100 numbers that the GQV does right?

Not to forget the Giulietta QV Euro 5 rarely got 235 hp...….

Unfortunately, we have not been able to measure the 235 promised horsepower. We have tested a total of 3 cars which delivered on average 222 horsepower. The torque also diverged reasonably. On average, we measured 344 Nm in the Dynamic mode which nicely corresponds to the promise of 340 Nm.

https://www.squadra-tuning.nl/chiptuning/alfa-romeo/giulietta/qv-235-pk/

..and a mapped TBi have issues putting the power to the ground. I'm on std TI wheels, and wheels spins so easy in 1 gear.
Compared to my Tbi, I'm pretty sure a stock Euro5 Giulietta QV is slightly faster 0-100 km/h but same 0-200 km/h..

 

[peagles]

Not to forget the Giulietta QV Euro 5 rarely got 235 hp...….



https://www.squadra-tuning.nl/chiptuning/alfa-romeo/giulietta/qv-235-pk/

That's interesting, I always thought the Giulietta QV had a K04 turbo not a slightly larger K03.

 

[Lastbreath]

It's re-mapped to 235 BHP , and yes good point on the wheel spin and getting the power down mine sometimes has issues spinning in 1st and 2nd put more so in the wet and what tyres you have on and condition matters a lot...It's not a constant problem though only when giving it some throttle and you expect it to come then...

 

[Filbyman]

I like this type of information, it's all very interesting. Makes me wonder what my remapped 2.4 ti is producing as I have never had a fiesta ST able to keep up with me off a roundabout or from 3 gear upwards, and many have tried.
I followed a new black Giulietta TBi a few weeks back and kept leaving it off roundabouts. I let him pass and then followed him and he wasn't as quick despite his best efforts. It think he was 237 hp from the factory but a lot lighter than me.
We gave each other the thumbs up in appreciation when we split directions.

 

[peagles]

I like this type of information, it's all very interesting. Makes me wonder what my remapped 2.4 ti is producing as I have never had a fiesta ST able to keep up with me off a roundabout or from 3 gear upwards, and many have tried.
I followed a new black Giulietta TBi a few weeks back and kept leaving it off roundabouts. I let him pass and then followed him and he wasn't as quick despite his best efforts. It think he was 237 hp from the factory but a lot lighter than me.
We gave each other the thumbs up in appreciation when we split directions.

What sort of power is your remapped 2.4 putting out? I would like to see a race between a remapped 2.4 vs a remapped TBI. I can imagine the torque of the 2.4 would take some beating!