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Discussion Starter #1
Just a quickie, is the 1.9 JTDm engine in the 159 the same as in my GT? Does it suffer the same issues with regard to water pump/cam belt failure? Is the maintenence schedule the same?

Thanks.
 

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I'm not aware of these failures and no the maintenence shedule is different. For 159's built before 09 (i think) its 18k miles between servicing unless you do low mileage in which case Alfa "recommend" a low mileage check.

I think cars built after 09 are every 21k miles.

Also the oil change is as and when the car wants one. There is a oil quality sensor. Most just get the change done when serviced.

The jtdm in the GT has no DPF has it?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for that. No it doesn't have DPF, will this make a difference to the power output? Will a remap still be as effective in the 159?
 
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21,000 mile service intervals were introduced at MY2008 and I understand that dealers reset the ECU for earlier cars when they are serviced to the new interval.

Remaps should give 175 -190 bhp on a 159 depending on who does it and what your requirements are. It has been reliably reported that the standard engine when run in gives just over 160bhp anyhow. Dyno results posted on the Forum have been around 163 bhp.

AFAIK there is no particular history of premature cam belt/water pump failure. The service schedule MY 2008 on, states that the timing belt should be changed at 150,000 kms or 4 years - and it wouldn't make sense not to change the water pump at the same time.

Hope this helps
 

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It has been reliably reported that the standard engine when run in gives just over 160bhp anyhow. Dyno results posted on the Forum have been around 163 bhp. [/QUOTE said:
Cool ...so the engine gets better bhp when run in ..how many km \ miles is considered "run in" ?
Where does the extra BHP come from ?
 

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21,000 mile service intervals were introduced at MY2008 and I understand that dealers reset the ECU for earlier cars when they are serviced to the new interval.

Remaps should give 175 -190 bhp on a 159 depending on who does it and what your requirements are. It has been reliably reported that the standard engine when run in gives just over 160bhp anyhow. Dyno results posted on the Forum have been around 163 bhp.

AFAIK there is no particular history of premature cam belt/water pump failure. The service schedule MY 2008 on, states that the timing belt should be changed at 150,000 kms or 4 years - and it wouldn't make sense not to change the water pump at the same time.

Hope this helps
This is interesting, as the service schedule to change the 1.9 JTD cambelt in the 156/147/GT is 5 years (or 72,000 miles, whichever comes first), whereas with the 159 it appears to be 4 years! Now the main issue emerging in the JTD waterpump sticky thread in the 147/156/GT lounge is that premature failure of the waterpump (leading invariably to cambelt failure) takes place on average at the 4 year point! Obviously this is an approximate weighted average but consensus would appear to be a must to change the cambelt/tensioner/idler/waterpump/coolant at least at the 4 year point and 60,000 miles, whichever comes first.

Since it's the same waterpump for all JTD 1.9 16v and 20v engines throughout the Alfa Romeo range (147, 156, GT, 159, Brera and 946 Spider - Alfa Romeo Part Number 46804051 as verified on ePER), I would have thought it an absolute must as well to change the waterpump when doing the cambelt at 4 years?

Unless, of course, there is something else going on with the new range of 1.9 16v and 2.4 20v Alfas that isn't leading to waterpump failure??? If this is the case, can anyone suggest what this may be?
 

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My 159 jtdm is going in for its 72K service next week.
Having the belts and water pump done at the same time.
Car is 2 and a half years old, but I am not waiting until 90K or 4 years as Alfa suggest! I wouldn't be able to take the tension.....as it were......
 

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My 159 jtdm is going in for its 72K service next week.
Having the belts and water pump done at the same time.
Car is 2 and a half years old, but I am not waiting until 90K or 4 years as Alfa suggest! I wouldn't be able to take the tension.....as it were......
So do they suggest to change the waterpump as well at 4 years/90,000 miles? And I wonder why the cambelt change is designated at 4 years with the newer range of Alfas, and 5 years with the older range? (apart from the sate of tune, these are all the same JTD 16v and 20v engines??).
 

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The water pump is not advised via Alfa. The specialist I am using strongly recommends this be done as the belt is already off.
He said that the belts are actually fine, and very rarely do they snap or fail. It is usually down to a failed water impailer that causes the bearings on the pump to go, taking the belt with it.
The newer version of the pump is fitted with metal impailers as apposed to plastic in the older version.
I have no idea if the newer cars have newer water pumps fitted....

And also another oddity.... Saab and GM, who use a very simliar variation of the same engine, state a 72K belt change, whereas Alfa say 90K.
 

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The water pump is not advised via Alfa. The specialist I am using strongly recommends this be done as the belt is already off.
He said that the belts are actually fine, and very rarely do they snap or fail. It is usually down to a failed water impailer that causes the bearings on the pump to go, taking the belt with it.
The newer version of the pump is fitted with metal impailers as apposed to plastic in the older version.
I have no idea if the newer cars have newer water pumps fitted....

And also another oddity.... Saab and GM, who use a very simliar variation of the same engine, state a 72K belt change, whereas Alfa say 90K.
That's interesting wynne! I thought the problem of the plastic impellar was on the Arese 2.5 V6 engine? (as fitted to the 156??) I haven't heard that the waterpump on the JTD 1.9 16v and 2.4 20v engines has been upgraded? It's been suggested that it is a bearing problem on this waterpump alone - nothing to do with the impellars? But if you've heard differently please advise!!
 

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The specialist I use, SimplyAlfas in Stourbridge, stated this is the fact. And as he has changed a couple of dozen 1.9jtdm belts that have gone, I believe him!
Or is he trying to swindle me out of an extra £40! Ha, I have found out his cunning plan...
Ask Tomfromtelford on this forum. He had a belt changed due to a jammed water pump on his 147 jtdm, at the same place.
 

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He did say it was the failure of the plastic part that causes the bearings to fail, vibration overload maybe? But he definately stated that the pump to go in is a metal version, I asked him.
 
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Cool ...so the engine gets better bhp when run in ..how many km \ miles is considered "run in" ?
Where does the extra BHP come from ?
The extra BHP doesn't come from anywhere - it was always there.
I think the theory is that the engine rating is on the conservative side because not all market countries enjoy the same fuel quality. In the UK where fuel is (arguably) of a high standard, the ECU can ramp up the power slightly.

I don't think anyone can be specific about when an engine is "run in" as it depends on so many factors regarding your type of driving. Between 2000 and 10,000 miles I would suggest you might feel a difference and possibly see some improvement in the fuel consumption.
 

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159 2.4JTDM Belt and Pump Change

This is an interresting thread. I have very low milage, after 4 1/2 years, 27,000km. City runs and once a year road trip. Alfa dealer is telling me to get the belt changed soon. I've experience the woes of broken belt on a different car so don't want to be in that same boat. But the question is, when should one change the belt. Sounds also that I should get the water pump done at same time. Here is teh biggest questions, for a 159, 2.4JTDM is it necessary to lift the engine out of the car to do the change or can it be done in situ and by oneself instead of by a dealer.
 

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Ive heard the same re belts and water pump from several independants.... the pump being the main concern, agree with what wynne71 says! 76K is the max they would advise....
 

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How much would all this cost including the main service in the Republic Of Ireland??? I mean cost of parts and labour, roughly????
 

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Cost of Belt change?

I keep asking the Alfa dealer for a ballpark price on changing the belt. All they do is just breath in and say, 'oh its a big job, very expensive'. I just had the EGR valve changed. So in Euros, 120E for the part and 350 for the work, this included a 100E or so for computer diagnostic and computer check. Why they charge you for the computer connection is beyond me. If you consider you pay the guy for his time, in the old days he would think and act. You never paid him 50bucks for the time and 50bucks for his brain cycles.
I have hunted round the web and found this AHM-Alfa Romeo Specialist-Servicing & Repairs-JTD Diesel Remaps & Q2 Limited Slip Diff Conversions which lists a 2.4JTDM kit including pump, fitted for 435 pounds. If you are in the UK then its worth looking them up. However I am not there and don't know them so you need to ask lots of questions and get references.
 

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Thanks vbk. I'm ok for a year anyway I suppose. Is there any Alfa mechanic out there that doesn't work in the main dealers and doesn't intend on robbing you!!! For any car main dealer servicing is cruel not jus Alfa dealers. 1 more sleep till I get my 159!!!!! :)
 
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