[Vpr156]

Hello I have put up a similar thread on the AROC forum so sorry if you have read it before. I have a 98 156 2.5 V6 which is being turned into a rallycross car the engine has been stripped down cleaned and refitted last week it turned over and started then died. I have replaced the relays and fuses that had blown but now the car won't turn over.

The fuel pump primes the key code light goes out there is power going into the ignition but not to the starter motor nor to the positive side of the battery the battery is fine and also some of the engine sensors have no power to them. I am thinking that it needs a new ignition switch and I'm also trying to locate the fusebox B98A but I'm not having any luck could someone please help

Many thanks

Lewis

 

[biffa]

Battery connected the right way around? sounds daft but i've seen it before...

 

[Vpr156]

The battery is fully connected the earth on the battery has a few frayed wires but is still sturdy!!

 

[biffa]

Is the Engine mangment light coming on?

 

[rgwm]

Lewis, I dont really understand the latter part of "there is power going into the ignition but not to the starter motor nor to the positive side of the battery " - nothing flows from the ignition switch to the battery. All the ignition switch does is feed power to various components, mostly via a range of fuse boxes. I don't think the feed from the ignition switch to the starter motor solenoid terminal goes via a fuse, though, although I may be wrong. To test the starter, you can put a direct positive feed to the small terminal on the starter - it should click as the solenoid operates, and as the solenoid completes its move it should pass power to the main starter motor and turn the engine over. Wish you were nearer, I'd come over to try and sort this - it must be simple, but its very difficult to diagnose by remote control. I can find you an ignition switch if you want to try replacing that.

 

[Vpr156]

To answer biffa the engine light doesn't come on

And Richard thanks for explaining the ignition switch but only the input power and two outputs work so this is the only explanation why it doesn't start could you please look for one thanks also ill have to read how to test the solenoid again as its late as my brains off !!!!! :lol:

 

[biffa]

Right, what that means is that there is no power getting to the ECU, this is likely to be an issue with the relays around the battery, ones labeled INJ, also on the V6 156 on the bulkhead/firewal there is a black box if you have removed the engine i suspect you will of disconnected a number on plugd one if the plugs in that black box feed the ECU and a number of other things make sure its connected correctly and go around checking and making all the other connectors.

 

[Vpr156]

Thanks biffa this has already been done the inj relay has been replaced and ecu has power as I can connect my diagnostic software into it

 

[Vpr156]

I will try the solenoid on Sunday this will be fun to get to as I can't see it and I don't have any lifts etc oh well ill give it a go and see what happens I've got an ignition switch on order as this is the only thing that isn't working properly as I've checked every fuse and all the relays I can see and they all work but as I said I'll try to get to the starter motor will keep you updated!!

 

[Dreamz]

CRANK SENSOR - this happened on my 156.... easy fix and cheap (if it is that just a throwing ideas)

 

[biffa]

CRANK SENSOR - this happened on my 156.... easy fix and cheap (if it is that just a throwing ideas)

Op states that the wont turn over.

 

[bear1]

Dead alternator?

 

[super164]

I've had a couple of non starting (not turning over) issues on my 156 v6 over the years...
First time, driving up the A2 then suddenly the engine died. AA guy checked all the usual stuff but was suspecting that the ECU had died!
To cut a long story short (full story on one of my posts) it turned out being the key code / immobiliser module (small black box with a green sticker, under the dash next to the steering column) that had suddenly died!
A brown fuse (7.5 amp iirc) tucked up above the main bank of fuses to the right of the steering column was also blown.
The AA guy said that there are fuses behind the glovebox, but he never got as far as checking them.
On the second occasion, it was a corroded pin on one of the relays in front of the battery.
I see that you've already checked the relays, but with the age of these cars now, it's also worth checking the connections on the underside of the relay box too.

 

[rgwm]

I think we really need to differentiate here between not turning over (which is what "appears" to be Lewis's problem) ie, the engine does not rotate when the starter operation is requested by the key, and a failure to start or continue running - which is an entirely different set of issues.

A crank sensor failure will not stop the car turning over...at least until you've flattened the battery trying to start it.

Ditto for an immobiliser.....

A dead alternator will not stop an engine turning over, providing the battery is charged.

Many of these posts are helpful if the problem is that the car won't start....but are irrelevant if the engine won't turn over.

Lewis - I've got a switch, but it sounds as if you've sourced one. In the meantime, if getting at the starter is difficult, which it probably is (!) - try bridging from the positive feed on the ignition switch plug to the trigger wire for the solenoid....Now of course you're going to ask which it is?.....white with a red tracer, possibly, but that could well be wrong. Shouldn't really matter if you get it wrong - just watch the dash to see what else lights up.....there are only 7 terminals on my switch, so you've only got 6 options....

An immobiliser

 

[Vpr156]

Thanks everyone for the responses the 7.5 fuses has been replaced because that did blow. Thanks Richard ill give this a go on Sunday sorry for messing you about with the switch but I could always do with spares :lol:

Thanks again :thumbs:

 

[Vpr156]

I've tried the new ignition switch and it didn't work it blow the ignition fuse so I went through the cables with the positive feed and nothing had happened so I'm guessing the starter motor has gone which means an expensive job as I have no lift at home and the nearest garage that know what they are doing with alfas is £80 to get it towed there so ill have a look to see if I can get to it from above but that seems impossible thanks for the help everyone

edit: just a quick note the stater motor doesn't click so that would mean that the staters knackered or there is no electric going to it either way ive got some more hunting to do!

 

[gibot123]

If you can get it up on a pair of axle stands or ramps you can do the job your self but your best bet is to take the the rear exhaust manifold off got to be cheaper to but some stands or ramps than pay for transport and garage bills :thumbs:

 

[rgwm]

If its blowing the fuse, it suggests that the starter wires are shorting out......starters failing are pretty unusual, and wouldn't normally cause a short. I suspect that when the engine and box were replaced the wiring got mis-routed and is chafing on something.

When does the fuse blow? When the switch is connected, when the ignition is turned on, or when you turn it to crank the starter?

 

[Vpr156]

the ignition fuse only blew once when the new switch was put in the other fuses blew after it started so it may be shorting no other fuse has blown since this seems a reasonable and cheap fix!!! i can't think the starter motor has gone as it worked fine before!! (im being optimistic!!)

 

[rgwm]

the ignition fuse only blew once when the new switch was put in the other fuses blew after it started so it may be shorting no other fuse has blown since this seems a reasonable and cheap fix!!! i can't think the starter motor has gone as it worked fine before!! (im being optimistic!!)

Arghhh - you are frustrating, Lewis! What the heck does "the other fuses blew after it started" mean? And if one fuse blew when you put the switch in, you've obviously got a short somewhere. Check all the wiring, including the cut-off switch, between the ignition switch and the starter.......