Alfa Romeo Forum banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some of you will remember that you had been supporting me with finishing my156 Sportpack after an engine rebuild that had been abandoned by a visiting mechanic. Well, I never progressed with it and the 156 will be transported to the capable and trusted workmanship of Feli at Auto Alfa near Basildon, Essex.
But, I am unable to establish if the engine might be in gear because the gear selectors are not connected and the hydraulic hose is also disconnected. A quickshift bracket has also been fitted and I am not sure how to connect the cables and if there is a procedure to connect the hydraulic hose. The clutch pedal appears connected and the gearstick appears to have no "gate".
Needless to say, my concern is turning the engine (new cambelt) as it may have been left by the mechanic, in any gear, including possibly reverse gear. Photo attached.
Many thanks in advance.
Automotive tire Motor vehicle Wood Bicycle part Plant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
It should not be in gear as it automatically goes into neutral. Pushing or pulling on the gearstick in a forward/back motion moves the selector left and right. Moving the gearstick left and right moves the selector up and down.

That is just based on my terrible experience with replacing the dust cover boot on my gear selector, and accidentally jamming the selector in the gearbox at a most inconvenient angle. Mind you, the clutch was connected up. But I would think with the clutch disconnected, it will be engaged with the engine, but the gearbox should still be in neutral.

The gear stick, as the cables are not connected to the selector will just move around like stiring a bowl of porridge. As it's just a ball joint type thing at that end of the car.

Try moving the selector up/down and left and right. It shouldn't lock into any position and should return back to the middle.

I had the V6 with the 6 speed gearbox, so it might be different for 5 speed gearboxes which looks like you might have one of those.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It should not be in gear as it automatically goes into neutral. Pushing or pulling on the gearstick in a forward/back motion moves the selector left and right. Moving the gearstick left and right moves the selector up and down.

That is just based on my terrible experience with replacing the dust cover boot on my gear selector, and accidentally jamming the selector in the gearbox at a most inconvenient angle. Mind you, the clutch was connected up. But I would think with the clutch disconnected, it will be engaged with the engine, but the gearbox should still be in neutral.

The gear stick, as the cables are not connected to the selector will just move around like stiring a bowl of porridge. As it's just a ball joint type thing at that end of the car.

Try moving the selector up/down and left and right. It shouldn't lock into any position and should return back to the middle.

I had the V6 with the 6 speed gearbox, so it might be different for 5 speed gearboxes which looks like you might have one of those.
Thank you for your explanation Mike. Yes, I have a 5 speed 2.0 TS.
The quickshift mechanism feels very tight and I had some serious difficulty with another that had to be removed recently from my 147.
I am wondering now whether, if the hydraulic pipe does not need to be connected to make mechanical gear changes once the ball joints are connected to the cables, then I could ascertain if another gear is selected and then secure neutral gear position?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,418 Posts
When cars are all connected up you can go through the gears without touching the clutch when the car is not running. As the hydraulic is disconnected won't it just mean it's like the foot is off the clutch pedal so it should be able to go into any gear with the car not running.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,136 Posts
It might or might not be in a gear, it isn't 'automatic' that it be in neutral.

If it is not possible to vertically move the selector shaft (manually, either downward or upward), then some gear is engaged. If the shaft can be moved vertically (both up and stop, and, down and stop), then the gearbox is in neutral. The vertical position of the shaft determines whether the selector mechanism is in the 1st / 2nd plane, or the 3rd / 4th plane, or in the 5th / reverse plane. Regardless of the vertical shaft position, no gear is selected until the lever is moved either to the left or to the right.

In neutral the selector shaft will 'naturally' sit midway between fully 'up' and fully 'down' (because it is spring loaded to do so), but it should be easy to move it up and down against the spring loading. The 'mid' vertical position is the 3rd / 4th plane, so when the lever is pushed laterally either 3rd or 4th gear will be selected (depending on which way the lever is moved, to left or right). The shaft now won't be able to move vertically while a gear is engaged.

If the shaft is first pushed downward, then either 1st or 2nd gear will be selected when the lever is moved (either left or right). Again, the shaft won't be able to move vetically while a gear is engaged.

If the shaft is first pulled upward, then either 5th or reverse will be selected when the lever is moved. And again, the shaft won't move up or down while a gear is engaged.

Regards,
John.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
It might or might not be in a gear, it isn't 'automatic' that it be in neutral.

If it is not possible to vertically move the selector shaft (manually, either downward or upward), then some gear is engaged. If the shaft can be moved vertically (both up and stop, and, down and stop), then the gearbox is in neutral. The vertical position of the shaft determines whether the selector mechanism is in the 1st / 2nd plane, or the 3rd / 4th plane, or in the 5th / reverse plane. Regardless of the vertical shaft position, no gear is selected until the lever is moved either to the left or to the right.

In neutral the selector shaft will 'naturally' sit midway between fully 'up' and fully 'down' (because it is spring loaded to do so), but it should be easy to move it up and down against the spring loading. The 'mid' vertical position is the 3rd / 4th plane, so when the lever is pushed laterally either 3rd or 4th gear will be selected (depending on which way the lever is moved, to left or right). The shaft now won't be able to move vertically while a gear is engaged.

If the shaft is first pushed downward, then either 1st or 2nd gear will be selected when the lever is moved (either left or right). Again, the shaft won't be able to move vetically while a gear is engaged.

If the shaft is first pulled upward, then either 5th or reverse will be selected when the lever is moved. And again, the shaft won't move up or down while a gear is engaged.

Regards,
John.
Thank you all for your support! I am relieved to say that I have turned the drive shafts and the engine does not turn. It was my understanding that the gear selector would "click" into position when pushed down and "click" again at the limit of the upward movement. Mine just moves up and down without any interference or force required but there is no gear engaged.
The problem I have now is that the dipstick does not seem to be the same as the 155 as I am using a 155 2.0 16v sump that has the oil temperature sender. Does anyone have a photo of a 155 2.0 16v dipstick? I am unable to find an image online.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,136 Posts
Turned both drive shafts simultaneously in the same direction of rotation...? It does sound like it probably is in neutral, just because the selector shaft can be moved vertically.

Regards,
John.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Turned both drive shafts simultaneously in the same direction of rotation...? It does sound like it probably is in neutral, just because the selector shaft can be moved vertically.

Regards,
John.
Thank you John. Yes, turned both drive shafts independently in the same forward direction ( I am on my on) and I've convinced myself that it is in neutral! With so much time (March 2018 engine failure) and money spent on the rebuild probably justifies my nervousness! My next task is to lower the 156 onto its tyres from some height and I do remember that it was often wobbly on the way up!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,107 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you John. Yes, turned both drive shafts independently in the same forward direction ( I am on my on) and I've convinced myself that it is in neutral! With so much time (March 2018 engine failure) and money spent on the rebuild probably justifies my nervousness! My next task is to lower the 156 onto its tyres from some height and I do remember that it was often wobbly on the way up!
A very big thank you to all of you for the support received throughout the 'engine rebuild' of my 156 2.0 TS Sportpack. There were some mishaps and dramas whilst lowering the car off the axle stands from a height of 130 cm (top of slam panel) ! Although the handbrake had not been applied, it had seized but I managed free it just as the transporter arrived! (best transport company I have ever used and they are located in Essex - CVL Ltd - see facebook page). I managed to confirm by turning both driveshafts simultaneously that the engine was indeed, not turning! The 156 is now with Auto Alfa and hopefully, I will be able to do some testing this winter!
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top