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156 Ride Height - Veloce and Turismo

5K views 42 replies 10 participants last post by  Spider95 
#1 ·
Can anyone tell me how much the ride height differs on a Veloce compared to a Turismo or Lusso. i.e the measurement from centre of wheel to bottom of wheel arch.
The reason being I have just bought an 03 SW Turismo that appears to have been built to Veloce spec. Western Alfa in Edinburgh told me this was common on the last of the pre facelift 156s. It does seem to have all or most of the Veloce kit, I'm just wondered if it also has the lower suspension set up. :confused:
 
#4 ·
Originally Sportwagon Veloces were not lowered.
Although there are reports that the very late Sportwagon Veloces did also get the lower suspension.
 
#6 ·
We have two 156 in our household, gluttons I know. One is a 2001 1.8TS Veloce and the other is a 1998 2.0TS. The Veloce has a lot of issues with speed bumps, and I am replacing the front Cat for the second time in as many years. My question is how do I 'un-Veloce' a Veloce ? is it just springs? or a whole bunch of stuff ? The two cars look to be almost identical in ride height from a distance, so 20mm could be all the difference.
 
#9 ·
This old chestnut...
My first point is they have different exhaust systems. The CF3 2001 1.8 has twin cats bolted to the manifold. So my main question is does it hit speed bumps at speed or does it catch at walking speed? If it is the latter, it is a ride height issue. Can you then measure the ride height carefully? To do so, measure carefully from the wheel centre vertically up to the start of the wing at the wheel arch. That would probably be telling as to what the best course of action is.
 
#12 ·
Thanks Fruity. I will get my tape measure out on them both. The CF2 has 50k miles on it, and the CF3 is closer to 180k, so I expect a bit of sagging. I have not experienced the speed-bump issue as the Veloce is my partner's car. However, walking speed is claimed. The rear of the Veloce had standard springs installed a while back, and this may not have helped either .
 
#13 · (Edited)
The shock absorbers were also different, standard alignment settings were changed to reflect being lower. When I had 2 I noted the 02 V6 Veloce was exactly 25mm all round lower than my 99 2.0 TS with no sportspack. Oddly (not todo with sportpack I think) the 2.0 had cast iron suspension forks where the v6 had lighter alloy so the ride was slightly impacted by more unsprung weight.
 
#15 ·
Hi Fruity, I finally got around to measuring both cars' ride height, from centre of wheel to bottom of wing.

1998 156 2.0TS (51k miles!)
Front 385/382mm
Rear 377/378mm

2001 156 1.8TS Veloce(175k miles)
Front 360/352mm
Rear 366/367mm

I did put regular KYB springs on the rear of the Veloce a couple of years back.
But it does seem about 30mm lower at the front than the 1998 car of the year. I've watched the Youtube vidoes of the front strut removal, and I think I can do that, removing the spring from the strut looks a bit scary though. I guess I will see what other horrors need doing when the struts are out.
-Hazel
 
#16 ·
Veloce/Sportpack should have ride heights of 370mm front and 375mm rear. Standard should be 385mm front and 390mm rear. I've not known rear springs to sag but anything is possible.

The bad news is aftermarket Veloce springs are no longer available. Only standard springs are available but there are specialists such as Alfa Workshop who supply genuine springs but obviously they are not so cheap. I decided to fit Eibach lowering springs to both my 156s. You may find this of interest;
You may find this of interest:

Failing that, I do have the original springs from my JTS which provided perfect ride height. The front springs are the 9 coil ones which seem to be more reliable (I only changed as a preventative measure) but it will be 6 weeks before I am home.

Have you changed the rear struts on either car? Often ride height reduction at the rear is due to the spring perches becoming corroded and dropping before they completely let go and drop onto the tyre. If they haven't been changed, very carefully examine the underside to the spring perch near the weld to the tubular body. When they start to go, it is the inboard bit which goes first so it needs the rear wheels off an a mirror to very carefully inspect.

The front springs on your Veloce are definitely sagging though.
 
#17 ·
Hi Fruity, Yep, had a rear spring pan go on the Veloce and I replaced both rear struts and springs (plus some of the rusted bolts etc) . I was sold them as standard height by that place in Royston, very disappointing. Thankyou for the heads up on the TotallyAlfa height shims, that is very handy to know. I won't be doing anything until the summer, when the MOT is due, and it is spannering weather! If you don't need your springs anymore I may be interested, but new KYB ones are only around the £50 mark delivered, but who knows if they will fit properly. It is interesting to note both cars sit a little lower on the drivers side
 
#19 ·
Yes, being lower the car has more negative camber. It will be closer to 2 degrees but on our cars, I don't think the tracking has as much toe out as other cars.

My magic formula for all our cars is set the tracking as many mm toe-in for degrees of negative camber.

The trouble with sagging springs is that the springs are still fairly soft even though the car is effectively lowered.
 
#20 ·
I wouldn't be too hard on Alfa Workshop. AFAIK, KYB never produced Veloce springs and all are meant to be standard ride height. Similarly, KYB never made struts suitable for Veloce as all were damped for non sports suspension. It is strange that your springs appear to have sagged slightly as I always thought KYB were actually better than Kilen/Lesjofors which generally appear to be about the cheapest springs on the market.

Failing that, I think if you find someone who doesn't want original GTA front springs, I think they should give about the correct ride height given that the GTA. I'm not completely sure about that though but I thought the GTA sits 10mm lower than Veloce but someone would have to trawl a genuine parts list to confirm that GTA rear springs are not the same as Veloce. If they are, I am wrong but after fitting the Eibach Pro Kit (30mm lower), I did think that perhaps unwanted GTA front springs may have provided a good solution. Then again, they may be more expensive.
 
#21 ·
Hi Fruity, well I don't want to talk about that place in Royston, there are other issues. I've pretty much decided to get Sachs springs, as it seems they are the only supplier that lists different part numbers for the same car with or without A/C, so that gives me some reassurance they are making springs in an accurate way. TRW also seem to do this, but finding a supplier seems almost impossible. All the other brands are making generic 156 springs, so I would expect a 1.8 with no AC to sit much higher than a 2.0 with AC. Also I see Sachs lists different dampers for standard and sport suspension, so I guess this might be the camber error I have in the rear.
 
#23 ·
Interesting. I usually get my service parts from eurospares, as they have a van and deliver locally. Now they won't tell me the Sachs part number of the springs they have on thier website - how silly is that! I've been looking at a number of on-line places and they all seem to be based in Berlin.
Company
Those used springs are begining to look much more appealing now!
 
#24 ·
The day has come to fix the suspension on the 2001 156 Veloce. We have now torn open the second replacement front cat in as many years.The plan is/was to install standard height springs, so I have a new set of standard height front springs. In removing all the front suspension bits to remove the struts I realised that at 170k miles all the wishbones and ball joints are shot, so I have a new set from Alfashop to install. I compared the standard springs to the compressed veloce springs, and I don't see any way of compressing them that much with my spring compressors. So my hunch is the dampers are different lengths on standard to Veloce models - is that right? I have a 1998 standard suspension 156 up on axle stands right next to the veloce, so I guess there will be a bit of swapping going on.
 
#25 ·
There is quite a bit of preload on the front springs which is why standard springs are longer. I'm not sure about the lengths of the front dampers but aftermarket rear strut piston rods are longer by around 15mm (makes no difference to ride height). It could be the fronts are similar in this respect.

I used a friend's workshop with a floor mounted spring compressor the last time. I wouldn't try with the DIY type. I'd take them to a garage to get them to change. Even then, I found marking the strut top bracket for rotational alignment before dismantling the strut helped making fitting them to car easier. I also used spray silicone lubricant when building them up as it is much easier putting it together to fit the large nut then rotating the now very slippery bracket into correct alignment with the spring and strut body. That makes it so much easier and also refitting the horse shoe bracket into the lower wishbone.
 
#26 ·
So, I had a bit of an accident with my spring compressor, so I need to wait a few days until my hand heals up. My spring compressors were not long enough for the standard springs, and one slipped round suddenly and pinched my hand - it could have been much worse. I wish I had a friend with a strut spring compressor! I also didn't mark the relative positions of the strut and spring cap, but I did take a picture at least. So I need a spring compressor with a working length of at least 30cm, my 23cm ones were just no good. Any suggestions? I hope to be healed up by Saturday, so I have two days to find a solution. I ordered a back-up solution from Amazon, a 31cm working length compressor, prime delivery etc, and then when I got the order confirmation it was from eBay EU, I wish Amazon would get thier act together about what 'in-stock' actually means.
 
#29 ·
Here is a comparison of Veloce and Standard front springs, as well as my rubbish spring compressors, which are not long enough for the standard springs.


View attachment 937129 View attachment 937130
Interesting comparison of the old Veloce springs and the new springs.

Can you advise the brand for the new springs? The length of the new springs is significantly longer compared to the Veloce springs. Also of note the Veloce springs have 9 coils, the new springs 10 coils?

As suggested by Fruity also a good idea to replace the mounting rubbers and the mounts.It does make a difference.
 
#28 ·
From listening to John Lear, I worked out and witnessed how spring free length is reflected in ride height. On this occasion, the springs are not the same so the increase in free length may not be the same as the increase in ride height.

Hand injury? Not good. Hope it heals quickly. There can be a lot of energy in a spring. Many years ago and before we got the spring compressors, springs were removed from a MK 1 Vauxhall Astra on a farm in a way which avoided injury. I'd say they travelled around 20 metres before they hit the ground. Dangerous things springs- especially newer ones which use far greater preload than older, heavier springs. I say there is no shame in approaching a garage or fast fit place to fit springs for you. Should be risk free. You could ask them not to tighten up the top nut but just nip it, if you like. Perhaps you now realise why I fitted Eibach Pro kit. The free length would be similar to your old springs. They are easier to fit than standard springs.

A bit of help hopefully. Look at the first picture and specifically the strut mounting bracket. There is a small hole in it of around 7mm. This hole should line up with the bracket on the base of the strut where it locates around the horseshoe bracket bolt. I find that it doesn't align with the centre but with the outside of the hole but I cannot remember exactly how as each strut assembly is a mirror image of the other side. Nonetheless, it should be ball park but will need a small prybar or strong screwdriver to align the horseshoe bracket onto the lower wishbone.

Often it seems a good idea to change the mounting rubbers. On the rear it is a bit of a hit or miss as I've heard many people say the KYB one is short lived but I had a genuine Febi (Bilstein) one fail in 10 months. It came from a trusted motor factor- not eBay.
 
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