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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
was -156 floorpan extra plate question - now refurb progress

Hi Folks,
Following on from this thread (3 years ago!) the old car has been lying for the last 6 months with no MOT due to holes in the floorpan.
Ive stripped it all out and rust in the usual places (drain holes, driver side sill most of the way down) and spurred on by rxe's superb thread Ive decided to take the plasma cutter and welder to it and see what happens.
I've done most of the prep so far and trawled the various forums looking for information on the additional plate in the photos but cant find anything. In the autolusso GTA thread they seem to replace the floorpan and not put this plate back? Im going to cut the underseal away from round the plate today to have a real good look but at the minute I can only see one bolt through the floor to a bracket attached to the drivers seat rail and what looks like a couple of spot welds to the floor. Im not sure if its a free floating plate, attached to the sill, through spot welded to the cross member under the drivers seat or what!
Its a bit of a pita as you can see from the photos the rust holes go right up to the edge of this plate and although its possible to use a cutting disc to cut up to the edge and the metal inside is rust pitted but treatable Id rather cut the lot out and replace and only do this once. Forming a new floor piece to mould to the shape of this plate may well be beyond my diy skills but I doubt too many scrap cars would have a good enough replacement section.
Anyone come across this before and have any advice on what to do?
Joe
 

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That is the seat belt mounting re-inforcing plate. I think it is bolted and spot welded, I've never had to take one off. In the worst case, you could grind it off and a replace with a 2x2" 1mm plate to stiffen the floor in the same area. All it is doing is beefing up the floor around the seat rail mount, which is where the max force will be from the seatbelt pulling on the seat in an accident. They probably crash tested it, found the seat pulling out, and whacked that plate in as a cheap fix.

Glad some of my mad welding threads have been an inspiration!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Glad some of my mad welding threads have been an inspiration!
You had better believe it! Inspired me to get off my ass and do something about it and not just consign it to the scrapyard.

Well to update, spent most of the day setting fire to undercoat and waxoyl. I knew they were both that flammable but never thought it would happen to me ;-)
Plasma cutters are great but very dangerous things, mine is a cheapo chinese one and the cuts arent very clean so used the grinder to take off most of where I could and left the plasma for just the circular corroded sections round the vent holes (they werent that bad in the end).

The metal around the plate was sound and although the surface inside is quite pitted, the underneath is brand new.
Of course to cut back to this 'sound' pitted metal it meant going over the plate underneath by about 5mm at its narrowest part. No room for plasma, angle grinder, air grinder that my compressor wont drive for anything more than about 5 sections so it was out with the trusty dremel. only an hour with the dremel and about 20 discs and its done. I should be able to get the welder head in there and may end up welding the replacement plate to the seat plate as well as the rest of the floor but no real harm in that.

I guess Id better take the side skirts off now, dont want them going up in flames either. Pity the side with the damage is the side with the side skirt which is still actually well stuck on.

It better pass mot after all this. Havent even looked at how to replace the sound deadening and the underlay (the bitumen covered underlay is almost disintegrated).
 

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The trick is to make sure it is properly stuck down in the troughs of the floorpan. After studying many of them, I've worked out what happens. It's condensation. They slap that bitumen on at the factory, don't bother to push it, down properly, and there is an air gap. On cold nights, water condenses and starts eating the metal, particularly around the drain flaps. As soon as the metai is corroded, then you get even more water.


The long bit of corrosion on my diesel estate.... was the one "trough" where the bitumen had not been stuck down properly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well I spent quite a bit of time today clearing up the remnants of the bitumen left after air chiselling it all off. Well ok, some of the remnants, well maybe 1/3 of the rear passenger footwell. Finally settled on a petrol/2 stroke mix and a lidl scouring pad. petrol/2 stroke because I have 20 stale litres of it left over from the boat and Im sure other supermarket scouring pads will do as well (or not).

Ive decided following alfalussos GTA thread to coat the entire inside in red oxide paint. Many moons ago I spent a year working for one of the worlds largest paint suppliers and luckily enough some of the guys in retail still work there I called round to get some red oxide primer. They didnt have any and said 'well all we have is the agricultural stuff but its a topcoat not a primer' 5 litres is probably enough to do everything within visible range but at less than 30 quid, well whats the worst that can happen? Plan to weld, rust treat, prime and then red oxide inside and if it passes MOT do the same to the underside of the tube then waxoyl over that. (and do waxoyl in the sills, cavities etc)

Gonna practice welding tomorrow with the new plate and some of the cut out sections to see how big a balls I can make of it. Still havent detached the bit from the bottom of the sill yet, waiting on a spot weld drill bit to see if I can do a neat job with that (rather than cut down my one and only 8mm drill bit).

I decided that my plasma cutting technique was crap so changed nozzle a couple of times and set off for a bit of practice. I also wanted to try out the primer, red oxide combo..
Things sort of evolved...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well its been slooooow progress, mainly down to my inertia and the fact its holiday season over here in NI so Ive been waiting for various places to reopen after the holidays.
Its almost impossible to get 1mm plate over here so 1.15 is the smallest I could get other than wading through scrapyard piles looking for stuff.
I have welded before but always similar metal to metal so using 1.15 plate with alfa floor of varying thickness from 1mm to 0.75mm (the rusty stuff) has meant Im blowing welds all over the place.
I practiced a lot on the sheet metal plate I bought last week and its fine just using it or joining two pieces together but blows anything else.
The metal recyclers near me opened up again yesterday so bought some sections of large diameter copper pipe (they didnt have any sheet) and made a copper spoon for welding the new sheet to the floor. I hammered a section flat, found some old metal small pipe lying around, drilled and stuck a couple of rivets in it and then bent the end a bit to fit the smaller holes.

I gave up with the petrol mix and lidl pads for the remaining bits of bitumen and was going to leave it when I tried white spirit which worked a treat. I dont advocate spilling some in the footwell by accident, sloshing it around then scrubbing with a pad because that would be dangerous and stupid on a hot day in a hot garage even with a respirator mask.... It does work though.

I do have a bit of rust in the front driver footwell which is quite pitted. I was going to leave it until the light shone through the garage roof and under the car and I could see tiny little specks of light coming from it where Id just taken some of the underseal off.... Another patch to fit.

Going back to the plate in the original post I was going to leave the surface rust around it but in light of the above Im thinking I should do a proper job and cut the lot out and try and fabricate a copy of the floor. (nothing like biting off more than you can chew).

I can confirm what RXE mentioned about the grooves and possible condensation causing the rust in the rear holes. Whilst removing the last of the bitumen you can see some of the grooves in the floorpan had little or no bitumen left on them which meant large gaps in contact between the bitumen layer and the floor. Every time there was a gap (few in this car thankfullly) the holes in the back of that groove had rusted away.

Having scoured the net for photos of the floorplate in question I couldnt find a single photo where rust was in the same place as mine. My rust is only really in the rear passenger footwell closest to teh door and the driver footwell closest to the front of the door. Im putting this down to when it was my daily driver I used to go sea fishing most weekends (mostly overnight) and used to wedge my tilley lamp when it was cold inbetween the back of the driver seat and rear passenger seats as this would keep it upright on the way home. lots of years of accumulated dropped salt water/sand probably caused the rotting from the inside here and nowhere else.

Right later today I'll be cleaning off the last of the bitumen inside and because I found some pin sized surface rust underneath a section of the underseal, Im thinking the lot really should come off and clean back to see what Im dealing with if this is to be a properly done job. So much for welding a couple of 50p sized holes and taking a week of evenings to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Update...

Well wetting a cloth with white spirit, rubbing it over the remnants of the dynamat (left after air chiselling it off) and then lightly scrubbing with a scourer and then repeat until nothing left seems to be the best way to remove dynamat.
With all the dynamat removed I found 1 more hole.

Removing the underseal is a right pita, tried heat gun and scraper, tried sharpening the scraper but almost slit my wrist then almost severed the fuel lines..
Tried paint panther and whilst it worked a bit on the whiteish and yellowish bits under the underseal and seam sealer once the surface had been broken it wasnt that great. Same with white spirit.
Used a cup wire brush on a drill and it did take it off along with the paint and even some of the metal. A bit harsh and at this point I figure Im going to need all the metal I can get.
Remembered I have one of those lidl (we dont have an aldi here in ni - other manufacturers/stores are available) multi tools and it does have a scraper bit.
Set it about 4 out of 6 (6 high setting) and it just tore the underseal off in long strips. Half the driver side done in 2 days, the other have in less than an hour. The rest can be taken off easily enough with the white spirit scouring pad thing.
Found 2 more major holes. Looks like I'll be fabricating most of the rear passenger footwell after all and the front drivers side isnt recoverable at the sill.
With all the crap taken off its plain to see the front drivers side has that circular top of a trolley jack dent shaped look about it. I find it amazing and not for the reason some garage has done this to me in the past but that anyone could get a trolley jack under the side skirts to lift it. Of course the broken side skirt on the passenger side shows where someone else tried this...

I took the fuel lines cover off and took that edge off the underseal as well. The underseal hides a multitude of sins, loads of little rust spots, the hidden jacking dent and a strange scrape along the length of just the rear passenger footwell. It looked initially like Id run over something small and sharp but only on that panel which is almost impossible. Looks more like a crack or manufacturing fault as there is rust the length of it and a couple of holes. When I plasma'd out the holes to good metal you could clearly see the crack in the metal. Thats gonna take a bit of fixing. Another weird welding mark to come...
Wish Id just bought that floorpan now ;-) But I have a plan for those bits...

Really would like to just completely strip the whole floor, exhaust, heatshield etc and treat the whole lot in one go... but then again if it doesnt pass MOT thats a lot of wasted effort that could be revisited easily enough....

Couldnt leave it any longer, took the drivers side side skirt off. First screw came out in a flurry of rust... oh shiit... As the Alfa 156 Haynes manual says on pages 1-356 'Here be Dragons'...
Thankfully other than being full of lots of dry dust the sills look remarkably untouched... I wont be touching them... you know, just in case...

Tomorrow going to strip the underseal off the drivers side so I can crack on with the minor repairs to that side... well minor at the minute... To be continued...
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Well, lack of updates due to workload and taking a quick break last week.
Stripped off most of the underseal on the drivers side and found another 50p sized hole just under the drivers seat. So from starting with saying 'Ive 2 50p sized holes to weld this isnt going to take long' to well the photos below...
This week, cracking on with the difficult welding/fabrication. I found when I cut out part of the rear footwell the part extending to the rear corner was really just dust, so it was easier to make the whole plate and weld that in, plug welded in the original spot weld holes drilled out with a spot weld bit then seam welded up.
Finally got the welder the way I want it (as with my helmet sensitivity) and with the practise the welding is getting easier, but not neater! I ran out of SIF gasless wire for the welding and had already ordered some super6 flux cored because I couldnt get SIF. IMHO it works a lot better and gives a neater black finish with less spitting. That and Ive lowered the feed speed slightly below the manual recommendations as that seems to suit me with plug welding and on off seam welding at my speed.
To shape the rear panel section I had already bought some cheap ebay metal hammers and dollies and along with using the old section as a template and using my router to carve out a piece of wood to similar dimensions as the channel that has helped. From rxe's earlier post I had previously ordered a metal bender for my bench vice and it makes the job far far easier to put the 90 degree bends and the floor curves in. It makes it even easier when you bend them upside down and have to redo it....
Used the plasma cutter now as Ive tuned it as well to make it easier to cut simpler cleaner lines, or maybe Im just getting better at it. It does make for some odd shapes to be cut in the metal but cardboard templates, black markers and white chalk make transferring it to the clean metal and just using the plasma hand held. The big grinder just scares the bejesus out of me. Can see fingers and whole limbs going missing at some point.
Still trying to get to grips with the flap wheel on the grinder. I did a real good job with one of the small holes grinding it back to match the original and other than the thicker metal showing inside the car it will be almost indistinguishable when seam sealered up and painted.
I should have left it there but no, I tidied up one of the more complicated pieces (one of the enlarged rusted drain holes). I ground it down flush with the flap wheel then noticed light coming through in a separate bit...
Hence the bigger corner plate, had ground down some of the adjoining metal as well, lesson learned. Tidying up with a dremel now.

When the replacement patches are cut with the plasma I line them up with the whole and trace round with a black felt tip marking the areas to be roughly trimmed. Ive a cheap bench grinder from screwfix so just trim the excess bits off with it. Of course if you were cutting straight lines with a grinder you wouldnt need to do this much but Ive taken the idea of keeping as much original metal in the floor to extremes!
I then use a scotch pad/lidl scourer to clean off the marker and do again until its a rough fit to the hole.
Im sure there are more efficient/better ways to do this but its working for me at the minute, if time consuming.

Ive bought some voche style paint and rust remover wheels which might be a bit less severe when cleaning up the underside to put the primer coat on. Also I'll probably get some brush on sealer to do some of the trickier bits on the floor pan corners as I can see me needing to take some time with this.
Hoping to get all the fabrication/welding done by the start of next week and on to painting, then reassembly, then mot then driving it...
...well lets see how that wee plan works out...
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Right, time for an update.
Welding is pretty much done (well at least in the floorpan).
The voche style grinder disc was excellent at taking the paint off. I have one of those lidl/parkside variable grinders, set to 3 and with the lower half of the protective guard removed (just drill out the spot welds - well used to that now). Should have really done this at the start, ah well.
So treated all the surface rust with an old bottle of loctite rust remedy I had lying around which did most of the surface rust and I ran it over the welds and bare metal inside whilst I was away for a couple of days.
Wiped everything inside down with isopropyl alcohol (put it in an old deicer spray bottle - dont mix those up in future!) and then put a coating of crown trade metal primer on it all top and bottom. It seemed closest to the original primer....
it reacted with the loctite...
I recoated those areas after wiping it off after it refused to dry for 3 days...
I then used tetroseal brushable sealer to cover up all the welds. I had hammered all the semicircular holes shut and coated them with loctite and primer so used the brushable sealer to coat those top and bottom. I gave up on the brushable part and used my finger after the first hours swearing.
I did a really need job with the brushable seam sealer...
...but it reacted with the undercoat... I guess I didnt leave it long enough. 48 hours should be enough but in the 13C damp august weather we in Northern Ireland call 'summer' everything is taking ages to dry properly (if at all)
I smoothed it out again and waited a couple of days to put a second smooth coat on just to make it look less like a dry lake bed and more like a dodgy cover up of bad welding...
I then coated the inside of the car with the industrial/agricultural red oxide paint which is a topcoat not a primer. 16 hours to dry it says....
...it reacted with the seam sealer...
...it took 4 days to dry...
I put a second coat on the inside whilst waiting for the bottom to dry. The inside looked a little patchy after one coat and as I was using the inside as a test bed for what the underside would look it, 2nd coat it was.
The 2nd coat is now dry as of this morning but the underside first coat still is tacky...
I was over in England last week so got some silentcoat ordered (pack of the 20 large sheets) but will leave it until tomorrow or Saturday to start applying this to give the inside time to dry out. I'll dilute down some waxoyl and spray the cavities in the underseat brackets and sills when the silentcoat is down. Ive just ordered some 12mm pu foam carpet underlay off amazon to replace the water absorbing underlay that was there.
With the skirt off I had a look at some of the stud fixings and two had rusted to be just little spots so sanded down and painted all of them. I havent stripped the underseal off the sill underseal under the skirts. I really should...
Most of the bolts holding on the side skirts were rusted so have ordered new ones to do both sides. I also took the fuel lines cover off and ordered replacement bolts for those as well.
Even though the car is in the garage (which got flooded last week) there was a slight leak in the roof (its a new garage/plastic/metal roof) which leaked onto the roof of the car and somehow found its way into passenger footwell. Ive taken the wipers off and covers to see if theres water coming down the sunroof drains but no power to sunroof etc etc. I think I'll fit a pollen filter even though Ive no a/c just to stop the dust blowing into the car when Im done. Add that to the list
Ive realised with all the getting up and down with tools and trying not to throw things around whilst swearing that Ive put a lot of small dents and scrapes in the body panels. Perhaps a respray at some point but lets get this back together and in for MOT to see what the damage is before throwing more time/money at it...

So apply silentcoat, one more coat of red oxide underneath, waxoyl cavities and a couple of brush coats of waxoyl over the red oxide. fit underseals, refit interior and give it all a good clean. Refix side skirt temporarily
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Last update for a bit...
Thanks to maxiboywales for the silentcoat tip, bought a pack of 20 of the larger sheets 375x270 off ebay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Silent-Co...mail&cal=9b81ee3daa896&cust=8HV44230XD381010A
Used only 9 sheets. Would have used 10 on the floor if my welding and clean up hadnt been ****ty but didnt want to cause the same problems with high spots as the original bitumen covering. I forgot to buy the roller to apply it so just used an old furniture castor I had lying around instead.
The darker silver you see in the photos is 150mm bitumen roof flashing. Very similar stuff to the silentcoat without the fancy coating and fancy price. Easier to put down in rough parts and cut into strips to fit the wrap around/panel overlap areas. B+Q had an offer on it so bought 4 10m rolls (have a campervan to do as well as some actual flashing around the garage). Evo-Stik Flashband Grey Flashing Tape (L)10M (W)150mm | Departments | DIY at B&Q
I had intended to reuse the original thick bitumen tanking taking the original worn out and smelly felt but realised it was probably past saving in most cases by the time Id started to take the felt off. The car doesnt get used that much so I'd noticed a lot of mould on the seats and leather steering wheel and gearknob which looking back was the telltale signs of a lot of water ingress. Probably best to start fresh and get rid of all mould.
Id noticed a lot on the front underside of the seat material when taking them out so a lot of time was spent cleaning the original carpet, seats, door cards etc. A lot of dust from two months in the garage and the inside covered in thick layer of dust/dirt/grindings/weld splatter stuff. Took a lot of time to clean it all before putting it back in.
As for the underfelt Im doing this quite cheap in case it does fail MOT on other stuff so dont want to put a lot of dough into it until Im certain it will pass then I'll go for phase two ;-)
I used this stuff from amazon https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00EZMT3NY/ref=pe_3187911_185740111_TE_item thirty quid delivered to NI for a 15m roll. I ended up putting two layers in at first but the carpet just felt wrong (see what I did there) so had the original felt still stuck to the underneath of the carpet so used that as templates to put a third layer in. Its not the same as the original by a long way and felt really crappy without the seats etc in but with the seats in and car mats back in it doesnt feel so bad. Will be interesting to see what its like when/if I finally get it up and running on roads.
I couldnt find anything online about applying a second coat of waxoyl over the first under the car and thought it might be counter productive (2nd softening first etc) but when I put a long tube light under the car I saw patches Id missed so did a second thick coat. Id already sprayed waxoyl into the sill boxes from inside and also under the seat rails section in the bits I could get a wire brush into. I gave the underside rails and the front jack points a good soaking with sprayed waxoyl diluted with white spirit.
I used some of the offcuts of the underlay to pad out the side of the drivers seat foam to see if that makes any difference to the wear and tear.
Seats all back in, tidied up. I had previously put in some red leds wired to the sidelights (off the cigarette lighter feed) so took a 4mm drill bit and fixed them permanently instead of gaffer tape. One hole drilled into the back top of the little compartment under the ashtray and holes drilled in the carpeted side panels on the middle tunnel. The ashtray light is ok and the side panels might need moving but we will see. Id also put two leds in the interior lights and they have a subtle red glow at night which lights up gearstick etc.
I tried to have another go at repairing the heater resistor as with the seats out it made it a four swear operation rather than a multiple one trying to contort into that space. Its a non aircon car so its the pcb type resistor. I soldered on a bit more solder onto corroded parts but still only working on 1 setting. Ah well.
New bolts for the fuel line guards and new bolts for the side skirts.
I had noticed some water ingress in the front passenger side when everything was out so with the battery in and car off the ramp so thought it might be the sunroof drains and of course hadnt left the sunroof open during all the work so needed to try and sort that out. Tried blowing out the lines but couldnt find how to access the rear ones (well see them as well!) so have the wipers off and cleaned out the front. Will have a look at that later next week when Im less sweary.
The car looks very low now its off the ramps (obviously) but its been up there so long you forget how low a beast it really is.
I have a few problems with lacquer peeling in small places on the roof and one large place on the rear quarter panel. I gave them the once over with a scotch pad to take the edges off and gave it a spray with some rattle can lacquer. Real balls of a job but it will stop it for now and Ive come to the conclusion after putting more dents and scrapes in most of the panels with this process that a respray is probably the only real option now but again Ive to wait on MOT, brakes and suspension rebuild etc way before that.
So new battery in, started, moved, everything working, no airbag light (yet) so applied for the MOT which is in two weeks. All I have to do now is replace the wipers, reattach the side skirt and see what happens!
Once again big thanks to rxe for the thread which kicked this all off, saved me a lot of time and effort!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Well an update...
Got an early cancellation MOT date today (instead of next Sat night).
All was going well until the tester was driving it towards the lift. Look of panic in his face and from where I was sitting I could see fluid leaking from just behind the front drivers wheel...
He called me over to say his foot went straight to the floor and judging by the pool of fluid gathering behind the wheel it was pretty much terminal for the day.
To be fair they went through the rest of the tests and the only (big) thing it failed on was the broken and leaking fluid from the front drivers side brake pipe. I was hoping it was the flexi pipe as I had two of them in the garage waiting to be fitted!

I got hit with a prohibition order and had to arrange a tow truck to lift the car and bring it home. Luckily the test centre is less than two miles away, luckily I didnt take the early morning appointment at the one 20 miles away along the motorway where I may have had a few more issues to deal with than a 50 quid bill for a quick recovery.
Ordered a brake pipe kit off ebay and it should be here next week, reading up its not an easy job but I figure to do it in a couple of sections and make life easier for myself...

To be continued...
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Final update for this thread, just passed MOT at the second attempt.
Replacing, or rather removing the broken brake pipe was a pita.
Ended up using a pipe cutter and cutting it on the straight section at the top near the ABS block. Bought a brake pipe kit off ebay for about 30 quid (pipe cutter, pipe, flare tool, pipe bender) and went to work.
The pipe didnt really need the pipe cutter down at the lower end as two sections pretty much came off in my hand with slight bending. As with other threads on here it had gone in the two places next to the bodywork clips on the inner wing (the bits you cant see nor reach).
It was a pain in the arse to get out but a lot of pulling, hauling, swearing, skinned knuckles and forearms I manage to get most of the clips undone. I did consider just leaving it in place but thought it might raise a few eyebrows at the MOT centre.
Reading other threads it just seemed stupidity to try and reroute through the original path so did as others have done, ran it along the top of the bulkhead and down the wing. I moved the little spacer block for all the pipe at the abs unit up to the elbow and slotted in there. The soundproofing on the bulkhead has a number of circular holes not used so I cut one of them out and ran a cable tie through the two holes behind and put the pipe on there.
Theres a free pipe holder top left of the engine bay as you look from the front and routed down through it. I then router though the closed circular hole on one of the original pipe holders on the inner wing. After trying for absolute ages to open this up, resorted to unbolting the clip from inside the wheel arch as it was a much easier job then. Id already bent the pipe to the same shape as the original.
Ive now just realised typing this that fitment was the exact reverse to how Ive described it.
I made the tricky bit through the front drivers side wheel arch first, with a length of pipe still attached, attached it to the flexible pipe and fed the free end vertically up through the free pipe holder near the top engine mount. Across the bulkhead then cut, flared and connected the pipe to the ABS unit. If I was telling the truth I would say I cut flared the pipe then realised I hadnt put the connector on the pipe and had to redo it again in situ....
Id bought one of those vacuum assist brake bleeders that you attach up to the compressor and bled the brakes all round replacing the brake fluid (which Id hoped to have time to do at my leisure)....

So now its got an MOT, and next for me is replacing the rear wings on my transit camper so I can put that through MOT as well.
Ive decided now to do the same underfloor treatment all round the car and replace all the brake discs, pads, overhaul calipers, fit new handbrake cables and front upper and lower wishbones and arb bushes. (have all those sitting in a parts box for about 4 years!)
Just about to order new droplinks and ARB bushes for the back as well.
Will start with the back and clean up round the axle stand points before taking rear bumper off, putting it on axle stands and then doing the rear brakes and suspension as well as tidying up/coating the whole back section from the fuel tank back (and maybe the central tunnel as well as the exhaust looks like its about to fall off).
Still not decided if its worth replacing all the shocks and springs (72k car) and will have a look at crossmembers etc to see if it worth replacing or just tidying up/replacing bushes
Then repeat at the front with bumper and wings off so I can take the radiator off as well and do the rusty front crossmember.
That will then just leave the engine bay and dont know if I could be arsed taking the engine and gearbox out just to do it.

Then theres the external paintwork to consider...
 

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Looks like you have been really busy.

but one question, why did you put body filler on the outside over the welds?

It is porous unless sealed properly, and if water gets to it the metal underneath will rust again pretty quickly.
 

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Looks like you have been really busy.

but one question, why did you put body filler on the outside over the welds?

It is porous unless sealed properly, and if water gets to it the metal underneath will rust again pretty quickly.
He said he used brushable seam sealer in the earlier post, probably that, which isn't porous. Its designed to seal over welds etc. You're not meant to go over full panels with it, but probably does no harm.
 

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He said he used brushable seam sealer in the earlier post, probably that, which isn't porous. Its designed to seal over welds etc. You're not meant to go over full panels with it, but probably does no harm.
Ahh ok, I must admit I didn't read every post in full.

It looked just like filler to me.
 
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