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Discussion Starter #1
hi all, after a recent fiasco of having to do my clutch twice (I've learnt to avoid transmech and carparts4less) I managed to get another few days of trouble free motoring until yesterday on my way to work, had to brake quite harshly and managed to burst a brake line.
It was the one that ran from the drivers side front to the abs unit.
I managed to drive it home very carefully, leaving a trail of brake fluid behind.
Rather than just replacing the last foot or so, I decided to remove the entire pipe which was more difficult than it looked (they must have started with the brake pipes when building the car) and made up a copper one.
since re-fitting the brake pipe I cannot get the pedal back.
I have bled all 4 corners but there is hardly any pressure at all and the pedal still goes to the floor.
there is barely a trickle from the side that was replaced.
I have undone it at the abs unit end and had someone press the brake and hardly anything comes out, so its not the pipe blocked.
with the engine off, there is a definite 'notchy' feel as the pedal gets to about half way but this is not there when the engine is running, however the pedal still goes straight to the floor, just a bit smoother with the engine off.
I'm guessing its the master cylinder has lost its seal, probably due to being disturbed, but could this be down to air in the abs unit?
I was going to undo the pipe from the master cylinder to the abs unit and have someone press the brake and see if it squirts out but didn't have a second person with me today to press the brake.
if there is air in the abs unit would this cause the car to have practically no brakes at all?

if anyone has had this problem before or has any suggestions what I should be doing before attempting to get the master cylinder off I would appreciate any ideas.
cheers.
 

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I'd do what you propose. If you have or can borrow a pressure or vacuum kit, that might help. I find modern abs brakes much more of a cow to bleed than older systems.
 

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Are you getting a constant stream of fluid form the other brake lines?
I would start with the connection from ABS to the trouble brake line and look for fluid coming out when pedal is pressed.
You may need to bleed ABS unit with MultiECUscan or similar. Or you can try and bleed both fronts at the same time, then both rears, then each line after. This is how I sorted my brakes all the fluid was drained out of one line.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
hadn't thought of doing both fronts at the same time, or both rears.
have to give that a go when I get back from work sunday.
I've heard of MultiECUscan but never actually used it. I had a quick look and saw there are several versions. Does the free version do abs activation or do I need to buy a full version?
 

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I've heard of MultiECUscan but never actually used it. I had a quick look and saw there are several versions. Does the free version do abs activation or do I need to buy a full version?
If you've got air in the ABS unit, you'll need to bleed it via diags.
Can be a pain to get the air out.

The free version should do it, but you'll need a modified cable. All covered on the MultiECUScan website.
 

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Using an Easibleed, make sure the nipple is open and don't use more than a few pounds of regulated air pressure.

The spare tyre as a source of air is not a good idea imo as to much force as said can reverse the seals in the abs pump?
 

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Using an Easibleed, make sure the nipple is open and don't use more than a few pounds of regulated air pressure.

The spare tyre as a source of air is not a good idea imo as to much force as said can reverse the seals in the abs pump?
You can let the tyre down to 5-10 psi before hooking it up to the Easibleed though?

An option available if you don't have access to a regulated air supply!
 

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Tried that before I switched to using diaphragm regulated air from my portable compressor.

It depends on the volume of air in the tyre which I found to be insufficient for a thorough all around bleed-off.

Her jalopy has a space saver spare you see?
 

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Discussion Starter #9
still nothing, I'm going to borrow a vacuum bleeder and a pressure bleeder tomorrow and see if I have any more luck there.
I'm thinking its the master cylinder though, there is fluid coming out from all 4 corners when I get someone to press the brake but not even enough pressure to stop me turning the wheel by hand when the bleed nipples are closed.
I have cracked the pipes at the abs pump and got someone to press the brake, fluid comes from all pipes (but runs rather than squirts) apart from the rear 13mm one, I think this was marked as MC2.
I then loosened the same pipe on my petrol one and the fluid came out from this pipe straight away when someone pressed the brake.
 

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I'm somewhat :confused: Are we brake bleeding or trying to eradicate air from the power assisted steering mechanism.

If I've missed the obvious please forgive my stupid ignorance.:):

Sorry, a road wheel of course, Doh.:eek:

Sounds as if you may have ABS problems? Over to the Alfa gurus, experts.
 

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It'll be air in the ABS unit - as DC said you need to bleed using diag to get this properly sorted.
 

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I had the same problem on my 02 plate, bust a brake pipe. Had the pipe replaced and bled but the brakes were still bad. Took it to my usual Alfa specialist and he told me you need a/the diagnostics unit to get the ABS unit to open up each brake line in turn and bleed it.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Finally got some brakes back now, after farting around at 8 psi with a pressure bleeder and getting fluid from all 4 calipers but still no pedal, I wacked it up to 28psi and hey presto! Pedal wasn't great, more travel than it had before but I had even braking and from all 4 wheels. Then went and found a nice gravel private car park and spent 10 minutes stamping on the brake to clear the abs module of any trapped air.
Brakes aren't bad at all now, I think if I can bleed them again when its not lashing it down they will be fine.
I know I'm going to get people telling me 28psi is way too much but hey it worked! And the way I was seeing it is you can't break something that's already broken! Not in any way recommending you fix your brakes this way if you get the same problem, just putting it out there that it worked for me.
 

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dgmayhead

I had the exact problem you described. Burst rear pipe repaired but couldn't get the pedal to go firm despite numerous bleeding attempts. Eventually all the air was removed by bleeding first from the "banjo bolts". No need to cycle the abs valves using computer. Unfortunately I'm not quite sure what part of the system the "banjo bolts" describe but suspect that a search of this term may lead to a more detailed description of a solution to this problem.
 

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Following this thread, My 1998 156 2.0 TS brakes are fine during my 10 mile each way commute..... when I drive highway speed the ABS light comes on and the LR caliper feels hotter than the others. Not sure but it may be the LR and RF corners at the same time getting hotter than normal. Anyone have this happen? Great peddle and braking, just gets hot and the light comes on.
Thanks Ric
 

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Following this thread, My 1998 156 2.0 TS brakes are fine during my 10 mile each way commute..... when I drive highway speed the ABS light comes on and the LR caliper feels hotter than the others. Not sure but it may be the LR and RF corners at the same time getting hotter than normal. Anyone have this happen? Great peddle and braking, just gets hot and the light comes on.
Thanks Ric
A 1998 156 will only have ABS (so no stability or traction control related stuff), so if the ABS light is coming on it is a pure ABS issue. Could be that you have very little breaking on the LF & RR, which is why the others are hotter.
Could be air in that/those circuits or a sensor issue.

As usual, a diag scan may point to something.
 

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I had the exact problem you described. Burst rear pipe repaired but couldn't get the pedal to go firm despite numerous bleeding attempts. Eventually all the air was removed by bleeding first from the "banjo bolts". No need to cycle the abs valves using computer. Unfortunately I'm not quite sure what part of the system the "banjo bolts" describe but suspect that a search of this term may lead to a more detailed description of a solution to this problem.
I recon they must be the 'banjo' couplings on the master cylinder. Bleading there would get the master cylinder full of fluid, and once it's pumping fluid instead of air it will blead the rest of the system.
 
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