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Discussion Starter #2 (Edited)
22/09/06


Still not got a car to put it in but I picked up a GTA lump on Wednesday and set about stripping it last night - Its been sat for 12 months, the cam belt idlers were rusty, I want to clean and paint it before it goes in and it gives me the chance to inspect it for wear and re-gring the valves.

On arrival:















 
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Discussion Starter #4
Undoing the crank pully bolt before I put it on an engine stand - I think put that much torque through it on a stand would have almost certainly broken something....

Check the clearance around the socket. I had to spin it up in a lathe to get it to fit.





Jamming the flywheel:



Like I said, its tight....... [LOL]



Its a big old motor and the block is only cast alloy. I didn't feel confident about the gearbox lugs being strong enough to cope with the weight of the engine whilst its on a stand so I bunged a work mate underneath the sump to take some of it.









 
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Discussion Starter #6
V6 head next to a 2.0 t/s....... why a 3.2 V6? Alfa could have built a smaller 4.0 V8!!!! [LOL]



Look at the gap between the bores!!!!!!! You could fit a small child in there. [:eek:] [:s]





The famous larger intake runners.... Looks like soumone enlargened them by hand with a dremmel.....







 
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Discussion Starter #7
Couple of issues have already been raised.

a) Oil cooler. GTA's have a oil cooler rather than a heat exchanger as per the 2.5, their are two electrical connections on the filter housing. I presume one is an oil temeperature sender and the other operates a valve to allow the oil to circulate round the cooler. One of the pipes from the filter has been crushed in the accident and secondly, I don't have an oil cooler. They're ~£200 to buy. Another problem is that the heat exchanger on a 2.5 has a feed from the engine coolant. I'll have to either re-route or block it off somehow. I think a more realistic option is to replace the oil filter housing with a 2.5 heat exchanger. Problem is the oil pump on a 3.2 is listed as a different pump. Why? Could be a different design to accomodate the oil cooler or it could be a different design to provide better oil pressure. Or any number of reasons. [:s]

b) GTA's are euro 3. Good in one way because they run 4 cats - 2.5 euro 2 manifolds should liberate some extra power. [:D] Bad in that all the wiring connectors are different on the coil packs, injectors, sensors......

Wondering if a 2.5 heat exchanger will bolt onto the 3.2 pump more than anything else. Its not a major issue however, as I have a brand new heat exchanger in the garage, just neet to offer it up and see if it'll work.

The engine will be going in with various guages to keep an eye on it, specifically oil temp and oil pressure.

13/10/06






















 
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Discussion Starter #8
Spot the missing bit

SJ156 said:
a ******' car to put it all on [:p]

so no worries about brackets now you have the uprights [=D>] was he a breaker or something ?

and you got the oil cooler/rad aswell [=D>]
The GTA has different hubs, they weren't inculded and they're £100 a piece. [8(]

I've got the bearings in the pillars, they're the same as the 2.5 according to e-per anyway.

Can you really get a set of GTA hubs?!!!!!!! [:D]

60510369 - HUB
Availability: - Product orderable

Minimum quantity per package: 1
Unit of measurement: Num

Macro-family: E
Weight (grams): 1320

Family: DA25
Discount code: B

Listed price: 70.41 GBP
Price including taxes: 82.73 GBP




Product previously in use for: 60510369 HUB - Subst. Date : 11/1988

Prod. code Description Min. qty Repl. Ratio
60510367 HUB 1 1/1




Eper lists it as

60671437 - BEARING
Availability: - Product orderable

Minimum quantity per package: 1
Unit of measurement: Num

Macro-family: E
Weight (grams): 1150

Family: DA21
Discount code: D

Listed price: 56.84 GBP
Price including taxes: 66.79 GBP




Product previously in use for: 60671437 BEARING - Subst. Date : 10/2002

Prod. code Description Min. qty Repl. Ratio
60652011 BEARING 1 1/1



And the bearing kit as:

71714478 - KIT BEARING
Availability: - Product orderable

Minimum quantity per package: 1
Unit of measurement: Num

Macro-family: E
Weight (grams): 1375

Family: DA18
Discount code: D

Listed price: 61.32 GBP
Price including taxes: 72.05 GBP



Its all greek to me..... [:s] What's the difference, do you get the allen bolts with the kit? [LOL]
 
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Discussion Starter #9
17/10/06


Changing the seals on the cylinder liners:

You have to "lock" the cylinder liners in place otherwise when you turn the engine over whilst upside down the liner and piston will fall out onto the floor. I used a big washer - 13mm ID, a 90mm length of tube another washer and the head nut. The middle liner isn't close enough to a heabolt for this to work so I trapped a flat steel bar uder the washers to hold it down.







See what I mean about the lack of staining from the oil? Its like a new engine. [:D]



Con rod end cap:



Oil Pump:





Con rod end cap removed:



End cap and bolts - fine thread



Cylinder liner and piston - you can see the sealing ring in place. Seemed OK to me and I began to wonder if this was a pointless exercise, not for the first time.....



Piston (93mm) and liner....



[:eek:] Its no wonder a head kit costs 200 squid.......

 
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Discussion Starter #10
25/10/06

With the GTA interior on ebay I've been looking at the finance of this project and how much its going (has) cost:

Donor Car - £550 + £120 petrol
Engine - £1100 + £100 petrol
Brakes - £350 + £40 petrol
Head Kit - ~£200
Cam Kit and water pump - ~£200
FK Coil-overs - £260
GTA roll bars and new drop links ~£300
Quaiffe ATB Diff - ~£700
Lower and Upper arms - £150
Radiator - £90
GTA MAF £140
Rear suspension arms ~£50
Front wheel bearings - ~£80
Oil cooler £50
Oil/coolant/brake fluid/filters etc £50


And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head. [:eek:] [:eek:] [:eek:] [:eek:] [:eek:] [:eek:]

This. is. getting. really. expensive.

[LOL]
 
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Discussion Starter #11
26/10/06

********!!!!!!

Just put the heads back on the engine. Went to check the torque on the head bolts. Computer says summat like "take head gasket out of polythene bag only when you fit it to prevent polymerisation..."

I test fitted them last week. I took them out of the bag last week.....

I didn't fit the heads till tonight......

I need to buy new gaskets dun I? [:x] [8(] [=D>] [:$]


29/10/07

As of this afternoon:



Doesn't look right....



Think it needs a new rad......



Is been in a light front and and not been repaired properly: The bottom rail's a bit mangled...




Mmmmmmm, its a woody!!!! [LOL]



Before I attacked it:



The wheel bolts were a bit tight: (that's a 3/4 drive too)

 
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Discussion Starter #12
03/11/06

pulled the engine out today









The garage is getting a bit full....



 
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Discussion Starter #13
17/11/06


Update.

I've mostly ground to a halt with it. I need GTA cam locks to start rebuilding the engine. The only ones I can find belong to eb spares and they're in Norway at the moment. [:^(] So i'm stuck with a half built engine.

Quaiffe look like they're still on for producing a batch of diffs in the new year but untill it arrives I don't want to start stripping the 2.5 engine and box because I haven't got a hope in hell of remembering where everything fits when I start rebuilding it. So I'm stuck with a filthy engine and box lying about in the garage......

Things I should be doing:

Rebuild rear axle. I (Iactually mean My Dad) bought a complete rear beam - hubs, brakes, struts arms, cross member etc. off a 51 plate 156 through ebay a few weeks ago. My Dad's been very kind and stripped it down. So that needs cleaning (Dad...) and rebuilding with new bushes.

I need to strip the 2.5 front suspension units and rebuild them. FK's, new arms, brembos......

Problem is I can't be arsed. Its too fecking cold and the car is on the drive......


I have however been buying more bits I don't need!!!! I'm almost as bad as Soo in a Jonny Choo shop when it comes to GTA bits I think......

I've arranged to collect a GTA front subframe and a GTA Steering rack.

As far as I can make out there have been at least 10 versions of front subframes made for the 156 and another 2 versions that were unique to the GTA. I don't know what the differences are but I'll soon find out.....

In terms of the rack:

There are a couple of issues......

1. Is the 2.5 column compatable with the GTA rack?

2. The GTA has greater levels of assistance from the power steering system to cope with the quicker rack, a couple of journos complained about this when it was launched as they felt it meant less steering feel. I'm going to run it with the 2.5 pump and hope that its not to bad. I'm a big bloke so I should be able to hang to it. Might be a different story with the quaiffe diff in it.....

3. Power steering oil cooler. Fortunately I (My dad again...) found out that some fiat turbo diesels run an engine oil cooler - Alfa robbed it to use as a P/S cooler on the GTA so they're plentyfull. At least this is the case on RHD Cars - The engine oil cooler is in the RHD drivers side front corner and the P/S cooler mounted on the opposite side.
 
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Discussion Starter #14
20/11/06


GTA steering rack conversion

Pulled the subframe and rack off the 2.5 tonight:

the 2.5 rack and sub frame are the mucky one on the left.





GTA spindle:









2.5 Spindle:





GTA Subframe



2.5 subframe



Eper lists different part numbers for the GTA steering column and the 2.5 steering column. I've measure both and they are the same diameter and length. I'm 99% sure the pitch of the teeth are the same and the racks themselves appear to be externally identical, so no problems there.

Eper also suggests that the sub frame is unique to the gta but I can't find any differencs between the two.

Looks like its all good!
 
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Discussion Starter #15
28/11/06

ABS sensors. (Front hub)

Does anyone have a way of removing them without completely nadging them?

Tried last night. the 10mm bolt came out. Bits of the sensor did too. Not cheap are they? [:x] [8(]


or are they? [:s]

60659263 - SENDING UNIT
Availability: - Product orderable

Minimum quantity per package: 1
Unit of measurement: Num

Macro-family: M
Weight (grams): 120

Family: FE27
Discount code: B

Listed price: 18.43 GBP
Price including taxes: 21.66 GBP


20/12/06

Guess what arrived last night?

GTA cam locks..... wooot!!!!!!

Thanks E B Spares!!!!!!! [:*:]
 
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Discussion Starter #17
23/01/07

Shiney!!!!!! [:D] The colour's Alfa titainium grey.





With intake runners um, kind of, in place....




Are you all bored of me posting about this yet [LOL] [:D] ?
 
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Discussion Starter #18
24/01/07

I had the afternoon off yesterday and spent about 7 hours rebuilding the engine. I've been able to identify a few more issues and hopefully, between my Dad and I, we’ve solved them.

I mentioned oil breather differences and like them all the problems I've since encountered are down to the GTA engine being euro 3 compliant where my donor car is euro 2 rather than the engine being a bigger capacity.

Sooo I've used the 2.5 manifold and I think I can get around the oil breather issues that way, more to come on that later in the year when I fit it.....

First off, I need to replace the 3.2 knock sensors with the 2.5 sensors. The connectors are different. Straight forward to do. No problems.

I'd started putting the injectors, loom and fuel rails back in place when I found my first problem. The 2.5 loom will fit the 3.2 injectors and coilpacks. The connectors are the same which is somewhat fortuitious as to seperate the necessary bits from the GTA loom would be a real PROBLEM.... I wanted to use the 3.2 injectors with the 2.5 fuel rails as the connection from the fuel line is a push fit on the 3.2 and a screw connection on the 2.5. Problem is whilst the 3.2 injectors are the same length as the 2.5’s they will not push home into the GTA fuel rail. Sooo I’m stuck with the 3.2 fuel rail and I’ll have to modify the fuel pipe on the car to fit it.

As I was stuck with the 3.2 fuel rail I had to solve some other issues. The fuel rail is bolted to the intake runners just like the 2.5 but unlike the 2.5 the injectors are held in place and prevented from turning by the clips on the top of them.



The 2.5 is the same but you can turn the injectors around whilst in place, which meant I couldn’t fit the wiring loom on to the injectors. The loom isn’t quiet long enough, (the intake tubes would foul it):





And the connections themselves are too big and foul the cam covers. To solve it the injectors needed to be rotated so the loom could be connected at an angle over a shorter distance just as the 2.5 set up. I reasoned that the clips on the injects are there to hold them in the correct position relative to the GTA loom and not to hold them tightly in place to prevent leaks. That is done by the fuel rail being bolted doen tight. So I removed the clips. Jobs a good un. (hmmmmm…..)

Next up is the thermostat housing. Once again, the wiring loom is different. The 2.5 has 2 sensors where the 3.2 has a multifunction single sensor. I used the 2.5 housing with the 3.2 stat, as I was sure the 2.5 would need replacing. Again, it was straight forward, no problems. The only issue on the cooling side that I can see at the moment is with the coolant feed from the heat exchanger. I need to look at that in more detail.

tha‘s it for now.







This is the way I think I can work it:

Ignore the yellow and magenta connections, they're common to both cars.

2.5:



The red pipe runs from the rear cam cover on to the green pipe.

The green from the rear cam cover to the intake pipe.

The OTHER green pipe at the back runs from the rear of the head through an oil trap to the manifold. The oil trap drains back to the rear vent on the rear cam cover (red pipe). This doesn't exist on the 3.2. No oil trap and no rear bank vent at the back.

My version (see page 1 for 3.2 setup.....)



So on this one I connect the green pipe to the intake pipe as the 2.5 and take the vent from the front bank to the inlet manifold.


*thinks about it.

I wonder if I could have used the GTA manifold? [:s] [:$]
 
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Discussion Starter #19
02/02/07

I had some issues last night with the oil cooler pipes. It seems the GTA manifold (euro 3 with cat) differs from the euro 2 manifolds I'm using. It fouled the oil cooler pipes at the outlet and the heat shield fouled the pipes further up.

The heat shield was easy to fix.

I hit it with a hammer. Hard. Several times. I am a pikey.[/FONT]


The pipes were a bit of a struggle. I spent 2 hours gently tweeking them trying to get them to work. I'd bend one section and another part would foul something else......





 
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Discussion Starter #20
05/02/07


There's a hole in my bucket...........





Sorry about the crap pics.... [LOL]
 
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