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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all,

I've recently become the proud owner or a 156 2.4 10v and it has been wonderful up until this morning. I didn't intend my first post here to be one about a problem but it seems my car wanted me to introduce myself to you guys this way.

The car has driven fine up until now, but this morning it refused to start. It turns over and battery voltage was ok, ive tried pushing the fuel cut off switch under the passenger seat to no avail. Ive wiggled all the important relays under the bonnet and checked the wiring to to them as mentioned in posts i found after doing a search for similar problems.

I dont know how loud the lift pump should be, theres a faint whirring but i cant tell whether thats the pump or other electronic wizzardry so i cant say for sure whether this is functioning or not (this is all new to me, my other car is a 1990 Citroen BX 16v petrol and the fuel pump on that is loud)

Most other threads along a similar line all seem to mention the crank angle sensor, as they're cheap and my local motor factors have them in stock, should i change this as the first component to eliminate? Ive got the battery tray out at the moment to change the clutch slave cylinder which happened to go leaky at the same time so i've got access to wherever it is down there.

As a note, the car coughs on first turn then nothing and ive tried easy start in the intake and it fires on this then dies when its burnt it all. Ive also checked the inlet throttle thingy that some people say can get sticky and stick closed - that is nice and free.

Any advice you guys have would be much appreciated as im struggling to find any clear cut answers on this problem from other threads. :confused:

Cheers
Sim
 

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get codes read before you splash out on "not needed parts" it could be a poor connection on one of injectors so check them out
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Is a fault code always accompanied by a fault light on the dash? I have no warning lights showing but im unsure whether this relates to what the ECU is reading, I.E the ECU can detect a fault and throw a code but without showing any warning light?

As the car won't start, is the quickest way of diagnosing this buying the relevant OBD software and lead to read the codes off myself? Do you know whether alfa dealers can do a call out to read the codes (as my vehicle won't start, i can't get it to them) I may be able to contact a local indie, I may have a mate with the right equipment so i will try that route before the dealers in all cases.

My biggest worry isn't that i will be without a car for when i start back at work on Monday, its that i don't want to turn up to work in my BX or bike as people will know the alfa has broken down and i don't want to give them the satisfaction of saying 'i told you so'. :) If the crank sensor is likely to be the culprit, tomorrow is my only chance to get the part and fit it in time for monday, along with the new clutch slave cylinder.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Im not in the AA, i really should join! I guess they'll be reluctant to come out on the day I join if I were to join in the morning but i will try that route if I cant find anyone local with an OBD fault code reader gadget.

Does the Yes mean, yes there is always a dash light to accompany a fault code, or yes; the AA can read fault codes?

I will have a peep at the MAF in the morning and see if that does anything, its worth a go.
 

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I'm no expert on the JTD but if the car runs on easy start and stops when it runs out that suggests a fuel supply/pump problem.

If the pump is noisy could there be a blockage in the fuel line?

Always worth trying the other sensors too though.
 

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Disconnect the fuel line into the the fuel filter,turn on the ignition and see if it pumps fuel,use a container to catch it though ;)
If it does re-connect it and do the same for the outlet to see if goes through the fuel filter ok.
 

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^^ +1 sounds to me like a fueling problem . You may also want to swap the relays around in front of the battery .thats what happened to me faulty pump relay ,swaped it with a working fan relay and fired up straight away.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hi guys,

I've tried everything you've all suggested this morning and still no luck.

Fuel is going into and out of the filter and ive swapped the pump relay for a fan one and same with glow plug heater relay for injector relay. I also checked the fuses and took the cover off the fuel cut off switch to check its connection, it looks sound enough.

I also disconnected the MAF. The engibne management light goes out when i turn the ignition, but stays on whilst cranking, i assume that is normal as it doesnt extinguish until the engine has fired?

Does the fuel pump relay control the lift pump or is it anything to do with the main HP pump? Im running out of ideas :(
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Also, as i note, i have put an extra gallon of fuel in it, on the off chance it had run out, even though the gauge shows half way, but this didnt change anything. The MAF is reconnected now.

What injection components should i check as fuel supply to the hp pump doesnt seem to be a problem and i'd expect a hp to slowly fail if it was going to go, being mechanical and all.

Sim
 

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Crack one of the injector nuts(on top of the injector) slightly to see if your getting fuel to the injectors,it should start to weep.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Will i have trouble with sealing the injector if i undo the top nut and then do it back up? With such high pressure im a bit worried about that.

I've just taken the EGR actuator off and it all moves freely so i will reassamble and try again. The only good news so far is that i have successfully fitted the clutch slave cylinder. I have a friend coming round tomorrow with his diagnostic equipment but i fear whatever we find out, if anything, may be too late for me to sort it tomorrow in time to use it monday.

Its problems like this that have kept me away from modern cars for so long, it has me baffled :lol:
 

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my brother in laws jtd is doing the same has yours, not starting and tried every thing.
going to a diesel specials on Wednesday to do a check on a machine to pin point the problem in the injectors.
if that is the problem, i will let you know what they come up with and good luck with yours.
 

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Will i have trouble with sealing the injector if i undo the top nut and then do it back up? With such high pressure im a bit worried about it
As long as the engine is cranking the whole time you crack and tighten it will be ok, keep a friend turning it over while you crack it and see if it weeps.
 

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i have been searching the forums and some have cured the problem with just changing the crank position sensors
and another sensor that sits behind the alt ????? worth a try.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Hi guys,

I didnt fancy undoing anything on the injector so i cracked open a union from the fuel rail to one of the injector lines and diesel comes out when i turn the key to what is the ignition position on a petrol car. It flowed out as the lift pump primed then stopped.

When turning the engine over produces a steady flow of fuel out the connection which is what I would expect to see. I know its high pressure but its low volume so am I right in thinking it shouldn't gush out of this connection even if its working right?

I bought a new Intermotor crank sensor this morning but i havent fitted it yet as i want to get the car diagnosed first to see what the ECU points at. That way, if its not the crank sensor, i can take it back.

I read somewhere that the ECU needs to be reset/recalibrated when you replace this sensor, is this true? If so, it means i'll need to fit this while my mate is over tomorrow so he can do that bit too while he's here. I'm really hoping the stories of the ECU being picky about reading Bosch sensors only are not true...

Every second or so try at starting the car, it coughs on the first turn like it wants to fire then nothing at all, not even a splutter. I did a simple test of holding the multimeter wires on one of the injector feed wires and there appears to be signal coming to them (well, the one i tested at least).
Being a digital multimeter with a slow refresh rate, it just flickered up and down from zero to some arbitrary number between that and 12v so i took that as a sign there IS something going on, rather than nothing.

I did expect little niggles with this car, but not big problems so soon into ownership and not this serious. Its a good job i like the car. Like will change to love, once its fixed :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
my brother in laws jtd is doing the same has yours, not starting and tried every thing.
going to a diesel specials on Wednesday to do a check on a machine to pin point the problem in the injectors.
if that is the problem, i will let you know what they come up with and good luck with yours.
Cheers matey, and likewise if/when i get to the bottom of this i will finish this thread with the outcome as lots of the other threads along the same lines didnt draw to a definite conclusion so its hard to tell what could be the fault.

I must say it makes a change from the BX16v forum that i'm also a member of as there aren't anywhere near as many members on there and much less support being such an oddball car, so its not as quick to get a reply on there. Im pleasantly surprised and grateful for the help you guys have provided so far!
 
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