[Nicky]

Hi All,

I'm wondering if this is the classic gear selector bush problem or if it's something more down to the cables themselves? My 147 today started feeling very sloppy going into second gear. Rather than feeling like it positively engages, I'll move the lever into the bottom left position to select second and then just have to hope it's in the right place.

The gearstick still centres well enough (a bit sloppy but nothing too bad) and feels like it has the normal amount of travel you would expect between gears. Just that it doesn't feel very positive engaging in 2nd. 4th feels alright but not amazing, and reverse is a little bit clunky and sometimes I have to push it right in to makesure it stays there.

Feels perhaps like the cable needs adjusting, as it selects 1st, 3rd and 5th fine - maybe its default/central position is too far forward so it has plenty of engagement in the forward (1, 3, 5) gears but its full rearward travel is not enough to properly engage 2, 4 and R?

Any thoughts?

 

[1of1]

I'd suspect the ball socket base is cracked or lost a bush - only accessible from underneath by dropping the exhaust etc

 

[Guest]

Yeah it could be that I suppose, it could also be the normal selector bush problem.

 

[Pud237]

Take the gaitor off and have a look down while you are trying to change gears at a standstill, does the white plastic housing move? If not, check the top of the box while someone else tries to select gears - any play in the bushes on the ends of the linkages? If it was the selector bushes at fault I'd expect it to be stiff side to side, rather than giving you backwards/forwards problems.

 

[Nicky]

Yeah I figured it's less likely to be the bushes as it's not a side to side problem. Had a look down without the gaiter as you suggest and it doesn't look to be broken or to have excess play but I'm not sure how much is normal? I took a video - will post a link when I'm not just on my phone.

I take it the 'fore/aft' gear cable is the one nearer the front of the car, as opposed to the one connected to the shaft with the bushes that moves the rod up and down. There doesn't seem to be excess play in that end fitting but will need a friend to move the lever while I watch before I can be sure - just actuating it by hand feels as if it moves and engages normally. If there's no obvious problem there then I suppose the only other options are the attachment to the gear stick under the car, or inside the gearbox itself?

Driving home if I changed from 1st to 2nd at high revs it just wouldn't engage at all

 

[Nicky]

Take the gaitor off and have a look down while you are trying to change gears at a standstill, does the white plastic housing move?

Video down the gearstick - 5cf5e058.mp4 video by nackybaby - Photobucket

The white bit doesn't move but there is a tiny bit of play in the white bit underneath which I guess is top top half of the ball joint housing? Doesn't look too bad to me though...?

 

[NineOneSix]

That gearbox was rebuilt to take the quaife diff, unlike the v6 box you have to completely dismantle the gearbox to get it in. So I'd think a cable selector fault rather then an issue with the boxes internals.

 

[Nicky]

..Unless it was carelessly rebuilt when the diff was taken out..?

Just picked the mrs up from the station and it barely even goes into second at all now...

 

[NineOneSix]

I couldn't say, iirc it was rebuilt by Lloyd at clovertech. Might want to give him a shout as to what might be the problem.

 

[Guest]

Sloppy second, eh?

 

[1of1]

When it does go into second does the gearstick move around a lot?

 

[Nicky]

When it does go into second does the gearstick move around a lot?

No more than in any other gear really. That's not to say it doesn't move at all - it will wiggle side to side a bit, but does so in every gear and has done in every car I've owned. But maybe that's because the lowest mileage car I've owned has been 70k so I'm used to worn gear linkages?

When changing to second it feels like I'm pulling on a spring but it's just not ending up anywhere. The gearstick will end up sitting where second should be, but as I re-engage the clutch and try to drive on it just revs up, i.e. it isn't actually in gear.

Could it be the selector rod in the gearbox is stiff and so rather than moving the pivot, the cable is just flexing? It feels like it engages fine when I'm stationary.

 

[1of1]

Sloppy second, eh?

:lol:

 

[Pud237]

When changing to second it feels like I'm pulling on a spring but it's just not ending up anywhere. The gearstick will end up sitting where second should be, but as I re-engage the clutch and try to drive on it just revs up, i.e. it isn't actually in gear.

Sounds to me like the socket for the ball-joint on the end of the cable that controls fore/aft is knackered. Reach down behind the battery tray and give it a good tug, see if you can feel it moving on the selector.

 

[Pud237]

Sounds to me like the socket for the ball-joint on the end of the cable that controls fore/aft is knackered. Reach down behind the battery tray and give it a good tug, see if you can feel it moving on the selector.

By the way I sell 4-5 of these a month, they are specific to the 147 Twinspark, different to 147 JTD/GTA and also different to 156 Twinspark. They screw onto the end of the gear cable a bit like how a track rod end screws onto the end of a steering arm. They aren't hard to change but they often corrode onto the end of the gear cable.

 

[Nicky]

Does the ball-joint screw on and off the end of the selector cable? (edit - you answered that while I was typing :lol Will have to have a tug (ooh-err) tomorrow but am driving up to Shropshire after work so that'll be fun without all five gears

Does the fact it's second and reverse that are the most dodgy suggest that the standard selector bush problem may be partly to blame as well? As perhaps the left/right cable isn't getting its full travel out of the bushes, which is why 3rd and 4th are OK (in the middle), 1st and 5th are OK (the fore/aft cable is alright when pulling), and 2nd and reverse are screwed (left/right can't extend far enough, combined with the fore/aft not being so good on the push stroke)...

I'm hoping this will be easy (i.e. not expensive) to sort! Might have a go at doing the bushes anyway, I had some experience playing round down there with my old silver 156 so not too scared.

Will just have to live with it for a few more miles...

 

[Nicky]

There doesn't really seem to be any play in the cable end fitting A tiny bit but not enough that it would prevent it pushing into gear, not to my mind anyway. Still haven't got any friends cry to wiggle while I watch so maybe it's doing something different that I hadn't considered. Off up the motorway in an hour... glad 5th is still working :lol:

Update - just had another look and it seems the gaiter/end fitting on the fore/aft cable (that is, the cable that controls the pivoting action on the gearbox rather than the up/down action) is broken. So the cable can pull OK, but when it tries to push, i.e. to select 2/4/R, it just buckles.

The flexible rubber gaiter is intact but the sleeve before this (the next part back towards the gearstick) has come loose from the grommet that locates the cable in the bracket on top of the gearbox.

Looks like it has been cable tied in place before and the cable tie has now (understandably!) failed. So when I go to select 2/4/R, the cable is pushing the selector arm away but has nothing to react against with no fixed sleeve, and so is just bending instead of pushing nice and solidly.

So the next question is - can this end fitting be fixed/replaced on its own, or is it a whole new cable...?!

 

[NineOneSix]

Whole cable mate, but much beter then a strip down and rebuild of the box though!

 

[Nicky]

Whole cable mate, but much beter then a strip down and rebuild of the box though!

Booo! Does the exhaust definitely have to come off to change the cable - no trick to getting around it?

And is the cable end fitting definitely not interchangeable? I had a look on eper and it only lists the whole assembly of the two cables, but I wonder if in practice you can strip the end off a used cable?

 

[NineOneSix]

I did it on a 155 v6 with the exhaust in place, I'm sure you could try first.

Cables are crimped together btw.