[will_raymo2000]

Got a list of problems with the car as long as my arm but I'll try and list as many of the symptoms as possible.

It's a 147 02 plate 2.0 TS and has been a lovely car for a while but now the problems are getting a bit more serious!

The coolant expansion tank is full of oil emulsion. Had a sniffer test done but it didn't change colour. Garage suspected head gasket or oil cooler to be at fault but said it wasn't worth repairing due to value of car.

It's using max to min worth of oil per 2 weeks (2-300 miles) but the coolant tank level doesn't increase which, coupled with no oil puddles on the floor lead me to think it is being burnt? Is this related to the oil in coolant issue or is this separate? There is no oil round the exhaust tip, only carbon, and there is no noticeable smoke when starting, driving or revving high which confused me!

Along with the above issues it also has the MCSF warning which I have read is commonly a crank sensor however this was replaced ~18 months ago. There is no power loss or any other noticeable problem associated with the warning light. Same garage as did the sniffer read the error codes and mentioned something about oxygen sensor/ lambda sensor but again claimed it wasn't worth doing. They cleared the errors and it didn't reappear for 3-4 days of driving.

Any help/ advice would be gratefully received


EDIT: forgot to mention, it has never overheated and actually can't get to temperature sometimes (when driving on cold days or even quite fast it dips below 90 maybe 5mm or so). This I guess is the thermostat being knackered but possibly this is also due to the oil based coolant its using at the moment?!

 

[will_raymo2000]

Bump

 

[Spacecadet]

If the garage don't want to fix it as it isn't worth the money, I'd suggest you bin it. Oil use is either going to be piston rings, valve stem oil seals or a blown head gasket. All are expensive fixes.

The lambda issue mentioned will be either a bad sensor or high readings caused by oil contamination of the cats. Again, high cost fixes.

Given the general collection of faults, and the lack of willing from your garage to fix any of them. I'd suggest cut your loses and get shot if it. Alfas cost peanuts to buy and big lumps of money to fix.

Just get another one that is well, it'll save you money. A litre a fortnight of oil even mid range oil will cost £30 a 5 litre can. Plus rubbish economy from knackered thermostat. You're burning money. Cut and run.


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[gibot123]

+1:thumbs:
Only other solution is to replace the engine if you do it yourself and even then you'll be looking at about £500+ for good engine, belts and oil etc..

 

[will_raymo2000]

Any opinions on the chance of it being the oil cooler? It's going into a different garage who reckons he can have a go at at least patching it up to a semi saleable condition. He said he could blank one of the water pipes and pressurise it with air and dunk it underwater to see if that's the culprit.

At least if that is the problem and we fix that and flush the oil out the coolant the thermostat might decide to work again with actual coolant in there as opposed to mayo

 

[scottyf]

What oil are you currently using?
Sometimes switching to a higher viscosity will cut down oil being burnt as it takes up the larger tolerances (Like old engine / high mileage engines).

Didn't think the 2.0 TS had an oil cooler?

 

[will_raymo2000]

It's not a cooler as such it's a heat exchanger on the front of the engine with the oil filter screwed into it. This, aside from the head gasket, is the only other place oil and coolant come close and is the cheaper of the two potential issues to fix.

The oil in there at the moment is a mix of many things, its being topped up so often its whatever the garage has or occasionally a bottle of halfords special

 

[scottyf]

Well first off you need to varify exactly what the issue is.

If its a head gasket problem then its a pretty easy fix. However by the sounds of it the fact it is not overheating and has none of the other symptoms of a head gasket leads to other issues.

Now the fact oil is in the coolant would first suggest head gasket.
Doing a compression check is usually a good way to check engine health at the top end.

Draining the coolant and filling up with some new coolant will be a good start. You don't have to use expensive coolant to test. Just flush the old stuff out a couple of times and replace with normal water. Its not cold enough in the UK climate for it to freeze at the moment so just flush it out and replace with tap.

If the water starts to get oily again you know there is something wrong with the block or head gasket.


Either way getting oil out of the coolant would be a good start.

If the coolant is fine flush again and replace with the correct antifreeze mixture.



I would also change to a 10w60 oil. This may help lower the oil consumption.
Check for leaks around the sump and oil filter. Its easy for a filter not to be screwed on correctly and for it to weep oil. Oil becomes thinner the hotter it becomes so what doesn't leak once cool might leak once up to temperture.

All the above is to do first before looking at other issues.

 

[will_raymo2000]

Cheers for that, it's going in to get looked at on Friday so if he verifies that it is the oil heat exchanger that is at fault then I shall look for second hand parts. He doesn't want to fit a second hand part as it has no guarantees but £40 vs £160 plus labour I hope to convince him otherwise.

Is a coolant flush quite an easy ish thing to do myself? I'd like to think I'm quite technical but haven't done much work on cars before. From my reading it seems to be a case of in clipping the bottom radiator pipe and draining into a suitable container then connecting back and filling up... Is it that simple? Do I need to jack the car up or is it being on the flat possible?

Thanks,
Will

 

[Spacecadet]

All you have to do is unclipping the lowest coolant hose you can that carries water. The bottom rad hose at the rad end is reachable from the top. Empty it out with the tank cap off. Run it through with water. If you can leave a hose in the tank running fresh water in, put a hand over the rad pipe to flush the block and a hand over the pipe from the block to flush the rad.

Refix the pipe to the rad, then fill with tap water, when it's full, squeeze all the hoses and run the car for the system to burp itself. Take it for a wee drive to get it all circulating. At least long enough for the thermostat to open and water to go round the rad. Repeat a few times. You may want to add a cooling system flushing additive if the coolant is oily.

Repeat each weekend until it is a clean as you want it to be. Then add coolant at the required dose, remembering that there will be water in the system so go a bit heavy on the coolant in the mix.


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[gibot123]

System holds about 7 litres in total so you would need to add about 3/3.5 litres of antifreeze/coolant :thumbs:

 

[gibot123]

Just thought there are two seals on the exchanger one for the oil filter and one for the exchanger to the housing .
They can come a bit lose as the bolt that the filter screws on is the same that fixes the exchanger. but you would normally have a leak you could see:thumbs:

 

[scottyf]

Does the car smoke even when up to temperture at the moment?
White / blue ish smoke?

 

[will_raymo2000]

That's the odd thing, no smoke and no oil residue round the exhaust tip. It's going in this afternoon so will update with his findings on monday

 

[brave soul]

Best of luck , min drink's oil also . Read it because we have sport engines .
Had it in my head ,,, that if coolant was mixing with the oil it would be in the engine block and not the expansion coolant tank ? And cream in amongst the oil , under filler cap . My coolant level never need's topped up .
Sorry to hear you're woes and hope it all comes good .

 

[Chrisbakker]

I owned a 2002 147 2.0 TS Selespeed and although the car was mechanically reliable it used massive amounts of oil. The dealer kept saying they can't find anything wrong with it so I tried to live with it. However, I eventually sold it because of the oil consumption. The motor in mine did not rev as freely as it was supposed to and the lack of torque was annoying. Beautiful car but someting wasn't right with that motor.

 

[scottyf]

Its not becasue the engines are "Sports" getting 120hp from a 1.6 and 150hp from a 2.0L is hardly in the realms of tuned. 75hp per 1000cc is pretty reserved.

Ok the cams are a bit agressive compared to other cars but there hardly pushing above their weight.

 

[brave soul]

Aye thanks' Scotty , maybe I have interpreted that wrong , where as we should keep an eye on oil level because of the strong racing heritage . And not oil use because of racing heritage .

 

[will_raymo2000]

The mechanic Has delivered his verdict and its not looking good, he did a quick inspection on the car and ended up saying even if it was his car and he wasn't paying labour he still wouldn't fix it. He mentioned bushes with an inch of travel, suspension and shock absorber problems amongst other things. He didn't even get to investigate the error codes nor the oil cooler. Choices now; sell it as spares or repair on eBay/gumtree, scrap it (had a quote from a breakers yard for £220) or break it myself (we can survive with just one car so have no rush to replace it).

I'm tempted to jack it up onto axle stands and break it myself as I think it would probably make the most money but any thoughts? It has full leather interior in good nick and working CD player & cd changer by the way.

 

[gibot123]

You will make more but a lot of people have said it can be slow going .
I could use a disc changer if you decide to break it . But you maybe better off just getting rid.
You could remove the easy stuff wheels ,stereo etc and scrap the rest.
What model and colour is it ?
As it think I said before are you tempted to have another one if so it would be worth doing that before you get rid.