[TribesMan]

So many ideas so little time...

I'm still waiting to go home to my bella and start working on FMIC installation. But since I've got nothing to do in the mean time I was surfing all over the web and somehow landed on the TDIclub.com...

A lot of interesting stuff over there. Some insane tuning projects... 300BHP from 1.9L 8V TDIs and stuff like that :wow:

Anyway what I found most interesting is that this guys upgrade their turbos like we change our oil filters
Most common are upgrades to VNT20 or VNT22 turbos, and some hybrid VNT17/20/22...
But most of that big turbo projects really ruin the cars daily drive ability. Full boost at 2500rpm is really not my idea of a drivable car.
But then I came across the "third generation" of Garrett turbos... the "GTBs"

The GTB1756VK form Audi 2.7 TDI, GTB1752V from Honda Accord or GTB2056V from Alfa 2.4JTD 210BHP...
Those are supposed to spool faster compared to old generation turbos, boost higher, flow easier...
What do you think? How much of a hassle would it be to replace standard GT1749V with GTB1756VK? The main problems as far as I can see is the new electronic VNT actuator on the GTB1756VK, which should be replaced with a vacuum operated actuator.
Otherwise the orientation of the turbo in/outlets is very similar to the GT1749V so I guess there shouldn't be too much of a problem to adapt the manifold and exhaust to fit new turbo.
But the main question is is would the spool up be comparable to the original turbo? I read that this new turbo is good for 230BHP on a 1.9TDI, but for me low end torque is of more importance than 10 or 20HP at high rpms.

 

[notfast]

I have a GTB2056VL from volvo D5 (185bhp) and this one uses electronic VNT actuator, and i'll soon convert it to vacuum.

Mine is water cooled hens the L.

Turbo's up to 2260 and there about will spool almost like the stock one with the right remap.

Count on that you need at least to change manifold and downpipe to match the turbo.

easiest upgrade is GT2256V from 2.4 (non mjet).

The orientation of the turbo in/outlet doesn't matter caus you can reclock it to better fit.

 

[TribesMan]

Some useful infos I didn't know that you can reclock the turbo housing.
But I'm still not 100% convinced that VNT22 can match VNT17 in spool...

BTW I read that V is for VNT, L is for water cooling...

 

[JS JTD]

Some useful infos I didn't know that you can reclock the turbo housing.
But I'm still not 100% convinced that VNT22 can match VNT17 in spool...

BTW I read that V is for VNT, L is for water cooling...

Ofcourse a VNT22 will never match a VNT17 in boost build up. But with the right hardware and software the lag can be reduced to a daily drive acceptable level.

But I've heard the GT2256v from the 2.4 20v spools actually very nice on the 1.9JTD 8v engine, better than on a PD TDI engine. But high end power is better on the TDI. (Larger valves, camshaft timing and intake).

Also this turbo is the closest that will fit your engine, so it seems the most logical choice.

 

[notfast]

Some useful infos I didn't know that you can reclock the turbo housing.
But I'm still not 100% convinced that VNT22 can match VNT17 in spool...

BTW I read that V is for VNT, L is for water cooling...

almost like the stock one with the right remap <- you must read it like "ALMOST"

yes, V is for VNT and L for Water cooling, just a small typing error.
Read futher down.

______________
mine is 1.4 bars @ 2000 rpm ,1.6 @ 3000 ,2 @ 4000 rpm and then droping to 1.5 @ 5000 .EGT 850 C @ 5000 rpm <--------- gt2260v from well knowen tuner on tdiclub, the turbo will support more bost, but 1.4bar at 2000rpm is more then stock.
______________________

more info :
A Guide To Deciphering Garrett’s New “GT” Model Numbers
The model number uses a minimum of six and a maximum of ten characters in the following format: GTXaabbcccc

The first two positions are always
GT.

Position “X” is used to indicate a revision to an original “GT” series turbocharger.
The original GT turbocharger will never use position “X”, only in revisions thereafter.
Position “aa” designate the turbine size and bearing system.

“GTaa” is referred to as the “Base Model Number”.
Position “bb” designate the compressor wheel diameter in millimeters. Compressor wheels with diameters larger than 100 millimeters only the last two digits will be used.
Positions “cccc” may be used to designate special features of a particular turbocharger.
Not all four positions are required to be used. Some of these designators are as follows:
“B” Boreless
“D” Dual Passage Bypass (Wastegate)
“F” Carbon Seal (Compressor Side)
“G” Compressor Recirculation Valve
“L” Water Cooled Center Housing
“N” Ported Shroud Compressor
“R” Ball Bearing
“S” Single Passage Bypass (Wastegate)
“V” Muti Vane Variable Geometry Turbine
“W” Water Cooled Turbine Housing

Note: Some Dual Ball Bearing and Variable Nozzle Turbine (VNT)

Turbochargers and CHRAs do not rigorously comply with this guide.

 

[TribesMan]

Ofcourse a VNT22 will never match a VNT17 in boost build up. But with the right hardware and software the lag can be reduced to a daily drive acceptable level.

But I've heard the GT2256v from the 2.4 20v spools actually very nice on the 1.9JTD 8v engine, better than on a PD TDI engine. But high end power is better on the TDI. (Larger valves, camshaft timing and intake).

Also this turbo is the closest that will fit your engine, so it seems the most logical choice.

Yeah I heard of some applications of 2.4JTD turbo on a 1.9... but spool is a very relative thing. 2256 is just too big IMO, it is nice turbo if you want 250BHP+, but I dont need that.

Also, if you look what difference does the newer turbo make on a 2.4 multijet, when they "upgraded" from GT2256V to GTB2056V. Peak torque available at 1500rpm compared to 2000rpm with the old turbo. I guess that GTB20 would spool same or at least very close to the original GT17 in 1.9, and GTB17 should be even better than that.

GTBs are amazing turbos... compared to old ones.
And if I would go into doing something that major, I would definetely use the best available components? Yeah I know that electronic VNT control is a b****, but that can be replaced with vacuum, other than that, there is just welding... and that is necessary no matter what turbo you choose...
Or am I missing something major here?

 

[TribesMan]

BTW, does anyone know what the letter 'k' means?
For instance what if the difference between GTB1756V and GTB1756VK? Both are from Audis 2.7TDI, but VK is available from 2009 on...
Only newer revision or completely different?

 

[radoslavp]

I don't know if this is the right thread, but why no one talks about Garrett GT1852V as a great option for turbo swap on 1.9 JTDs ? I'm far from thinking that no one here knows that this turbo is direct replacement for the stock GT1749 and absolutely no modifications are needed (same orientation), the turbo is also widely used on many diesel cars so it can be found second hand easily, and last but not least it is good for 200+ hp setups, nothing extreme but a direct replacement part? The only thing I can think of that might not be suitable is the turbo map, but VAG guys are pretty happy with it on their 1.9 diesels.

 

[notfast]

I don't know if this is the right thread, but why no one talks about Garrett GT1852V as a great option for turbo swap on 1.9 JTDs ? I'm far from thinking that no one here knows that this turbo is direct replacement for the stock GT1749 and absolutely no modifications are needed (same orientation), the turbo is also widely used on many diesel cars so it can be found second hand easily, and last but not least it is good for 200+ hp setups, nothing extreme but a direct replacement part? The only thing I can think of that might not be suitable is the turbo map, but VAG guys are pretty happy with it on their 1.9 diesels.

You can choose any turbo you like, and almost every VNT can be reclocked (orientation wize) so why limited your chose to one with same orientation?

most VAG guys with GT1852V do upgrade again later on.
If you do upgrade do it like you mean it

 

[G5een]

So what would be the best/easiest upgrade for the 1.9 JTDm engine??

 

[notfast]

So what would be the best/easiest upgrade for the 1.9 JTDm engine??

GT2256V from a 2.4 JTD (non mjet) easy to find and easy to use, just need only small work to the Exhaust down pipe side.

maybe the same apply to GTB2056V, but they will be hard to source used and you'll need to buy a new expensive
one.

A lot of people use GT2256V at 1.9 diesel engine with good experience (both JTD and TDI's).

How much power do you want?

 

[kgb]

GT2256 will be more then OK for your car Tribesman

You don't want full boost below 2500-3000RPM...BUT if you want it...you can get more then 2BAR around 2000RPM

 

[TribesMan]

Well my idea of driveable car is, max torque available in a wide range of revs...
Optimum would be something like twin turbo 1.9JTD in saab, or 2.0d in BMW 3. But since installing twin turbo to our cars is next to impossible, I would just like to make the best out of the possible.
And if you can give me something like [email protected] and 400Nm form 2000-3500 then I dont care about 200+HP...

But since I have never seen 4 cylinder diesel with this kind of torque I gess there must be some limitation. My guess was that turbo doesnt spool, or are there some other problems?

Newer diesels use even smaller turbos like GTB1549V in 2.0JTD, but the torque at low revs is not so high as one would expect, or are my expectations too high?

 

[radoslavp]

You'll have your flywheel into pieces if you want 300Nm @ 1500 rpm and 400 and up at 2000 to 3500 rpm, also you'll need some bad *** clutch to transfer that torque.

 

[TribesMan]

Oh... I was not aware of that
I have an uprated clutch on my car... but flywheel is standard...

 

[kgb]

With your driving style you won't have any problems with 300-400NM

You should be ok with up to 500NM.

 

[notfast]

Oh... I was not aware of that
I have an uprated clutch on my car... but flywheel is standard...

You can have torque available in a wide range of revs with at big turbo no problem.

Like kgb says "You don't want full boost below 2500-3000RPM...BUT if you want it...you can get more then 2BAR around 2000RPM"

with a GT2256V you can have al the boost in the low revs you want... if you doesn't like your clutch

So a big turbo will with the work fine with the right tune.

 

[G5een]

What sort of power could you get with a turbo from the 2.4??

I'm running over 200bhp with the standard unit.

 

[kgb]

It depends on a lot of things...

Since you have the "new" engine you should be able to reach about 260-280hp with the corresponding mods, FMIC, BMC_CDA or similar, new exhaust system...and maybe water/meth injection.

You can get even more...but problem is Torque...you will be looking at more then 500NM.

If you ask me go for it.

 

[G5een]

Interesting.

I'll wait until my turbo blows up first before I'd change it.

Do you know where you can buy some sort of FMIC kit for a GT/147/156?? I'd like to go down this route but I'm not sure how it all goes together or what you need, a kit would be much easier (I'm a bit lazy tbh). :lol:

For the moment I'm all about chassis tuning. I don't see the point in having massive straight line power without being able to go around bends.