[collezione]

Hi.
I am looking for a good deal on a guilietta and have settled on the veloce petrol.trouble is I haven't had the chance to drive either the 120 or 170bhp as the dealer near me (80miles away) was only interested in pushing the 2litre diesel. Would anybody know if the multiair 170 is the way forward re fuel return and performance or should I go for the 120 at around £1500 less.i have an 07 collezione 147 and have loved it.I was also confused as when to buy.i am looking at new,but been told dealers work on monthly targets and also told they work on quarterly targets.looking for the best time to negotiate but confused.

Really appreciate any replies.

Thanks in advance

 

[via el diablo]

If you need good a return on your fuel, get the diesel. I have the multiair (170) and it is punchy but no where near the quoted mpg. I average about 31mpg round town and about 37 on a run. Also the 170 is cheaper to tax and has better mpg than the 120.

I got a great deal from beachdales in derby when I bought my collezione and basically got the MA for the same price as the 120

 

[PR]

With such an important purchase, I would find your nearest dealer that has what you want, then go and test them for yourself. It may mean a bit of a trek, but you will own this car for a good while (Im guessing) so its important to get it right.

I would echo what via el diablo said about the multiair though. We have a 2.0MJ 170 and get around 50mpg out of it. On the occasions it has been in we normally get a 1.4 multiair, and whilst it is a lovely engine, quick, smooth etc.. we only were getting mid 30s out of it...

 

[Tog]

My first G was a 170 Veloce Multiair from new and I now have a new 170 JTM2 Sportiva. Actually prefer the low down grunt of the diesel which seems a more relaxing drive as you dont have to spin up the engine like the multi air. She regularly does 41.9 to the gallon on the wife's 9 mile each way commute each day (multi air was 34mpg) and way more on a run. Multiair unit went on the petrol one as I suspect wrong oil put in it....also had a few engine water leaks. It was one of the first off the line 3 years ago and this new one feels better screwed together.

My view is either way don't even think about the 120 if you can stretch to a 170...you will only be thinking "if only i'd bought the 170"

 

[via el diablo]

Saying that though, u had a 120bhp mito and that was quicker than the 135MA that followed it!

But it's an old engine now and felt like it when you drove it. Plus I don't think resale is that great

 

[collezione]

Thanks everyone for your input.its not that i need sheer off the mark speed.my 120bhp 147 is quick enough for me but as you say the 170 looks the better bet all round package.still unsure when to get the best deal.agree i need to drive my preferred veloce and had read best time is last 2weeks of each quarter when dealers are keen to meet their targets.had even considered broadspeed to take the hassle out of haggling.any thoughts anyone?

 

[AlfaAlanG]

Multiair 170 all day long!

You don't need to give it the beans all the time, it's a nice sedate runaround when you want it to be and it's still peanuts to insure.

:thumbs:

 

[Tog]

Thanks everyone for your input.its not that i need sheer off the mark speed.my 120bhp 147 is quick enough for me but as you say the 170 looks the better bet all round package.still unsure when to get the best deal.agree i need to drive my preferred veloce and had read best time is last 2weeks of each quarter when dealers are keen to meet their targets.had even considered broadspeed to take the hassle out of haggling.any thoughts anyone?

Whereabouts do you live? Who is your nearest Dealer?

 

[JTD_Liam]

Thanks everyone for your input.its not that i need sheer off the mark speed.my 120bhp 147 is quick enough for me but as you say the 170 looks the better bet all round package.still unsure when to get the best deal.agree i need to drive my preferred veloce and had read best time is last 2weeks of each quarter when dealers are keen to meet their targets.had even considered broadspeed to take the hassle out of haggling.any thoughts anyone?

If you're not looking for out right performance then a TB 120 might be fine. I've not driven one so can't say how it compares to a MultiAir like others can, but Fiat is meant to be putting a 1.4 120 petrol in the newly launched 500L later in the year & my reckoning is this'll be the TB 120, so they obviously don't think it's a bad engine. It's been used in the Grande Punto, Bravo, MiTo and Giulietta & hasn't caused any problems, whereas there have been cases of MultiAir unit failures in all the bhp outputs of MultiAir engine. Not widespread, but more trouble than the TB 120 has had.

Either engine will be cheaper to run, tax and service than the 147 T-Spark I should imagine - no 36,000 mile cambelt changes for example :thumbs:

However I'd echo what others have said & make sure you find a dealer that'll accommodate a test drive. I'd imagine the end of any month would be good to get a deal, but from experience not all dealers seem that bothered what time of the month it is. With the deals the likes of Broadspeed & DrivetheDeal are offering, it might be worth going to them unless a dealer can match them. A mate used DrivetheDeal on a Golf GTI in 2010 and they were good. They just referred him to a dealer nearby & they did the rest, but at the DrivetheDeal price. Seemed painless to me, and worthwhile given the Giulietta can lose quite a chunk of value compared to the MiTo.

I'd also consider trying a JTDm. The 1.6 and 2.0 140 will be significantly more economical than the two petrols and still feel quicker than the 147, especially the 2.0 but the 1.6 is meant to be a lot better than its figures suggest.

 

[cue2]

The Mito appears to have reached saturation point since Alfa lost control of the used market for them as would be expected after 4 or 5 years on sale . That's if a couple of threads on the Mito board are anything to go by, with people unable to shift them .
Back to the 120 versus 170 Giulietta petrol . I've heard a couple of good comments on here about the smaller output TB engine and note the torque level and when it happens are good but the govt fuel consumption figures not so good , but they are not exactly realistic. I'd like to try it compared to the 170 I bought.

 

[Alexdm]

As other have said, find a nearest dealer with both engines that are interested to sell you the car you want not the one they wont. On timing, the best time is to buy towards the end of the month and they will be more willing to give you a better deal.

Engine wise, I would go on the 170 purely you can give it some beans when you want too and have some fun yet, drive it normally for better mpg.

In terms of mpg, as you might know, don't pay too much attentions to the actual figures but, use it as a comparisons only. Mine returns anything from 27 (short drives) to 36 on long m'way journeys sticking to the speed limit, anything below 70mph will be a bonus (reached 40mpg on m'ways) anything above 70mph will drastically reduce the mpg (got as low as 25mpg on m'ways).
As per any car, test drive both, and see what FEELS better which in my opinion it is all it counts.

Hope it helps

 

[collezione]

I live in barrow in Furness and have travelled to Carlisle and am also in touch with the Blackburn Alfa dealer roughly the same distance away.i was really disappointed the Carlisle dealer didn't have the engines I stated in advance available for a drive.even asked if I was prepared to do a deal on the day and the Blackburn dealer wanted a deal "to meet his quota for the month" within hours and I hadn't driven or even seen the car as I was only ringing him for his best price.been unprepared for the pressure I was put under.not too sure if that is common to all dealers.

 

[via el diablo]

There's good and bad dealers. When I bought mine, the guy in derby gave me his best price and a px price over the phone. He then emailed the quote to me and told me to think about it but didn't pressure me by saying it was for a limited time or anything. On the flip side, my local dealer wanted me to sign the papers straight after the test drive and wouldn't give me px until he thought I would sign.

 

[KrisW]

Collezione, as a fellow 147 1.6 TS owner (also Collezione, but it was a different spec here), I can give you my impressions of the 120 and 170.

The 120 is, and feels, faster than the TwinSpark in the 147, but if that's because of the turbo boost or perhaps the more modern transmission, I don't know: both cars are pretty much the same weight. Rev it a lot, and it doesn't have that little kick at around 4,000 rpm that the 147's does, but it's a pretty good engine. It doesn't sound as good as the TwinSpark, though.

The 170, on the other hand is a superb engine. In Normal mode, it does not feel like a small turbocharged engine: if you know what to expect, yes, you can feel where the turbo comes in, but the transition is smooth, and the engine just keeps going afterwards. In D mode, you definitely feel the turbo, but the off-boost performance is still good. The MultiAir 170 just feels like a larger engine than the 120, despite them being the same displacement. Again, not as throaty as the TwinSpark, but the 170 manages to sound pretty nice in its own way.

The MultiAir 170 gets better economy (when driven the same way - but you will drive the 170 with more right-foot, because it's such fun) and better CO2 emissions too, which means a lower annual tax.

However, my own mileage and the taxation system here in Ireland means that I'll probably be getting the 2.0 TCT, not the MultiAir, but that's my situation, not yours.

 

[JTD_Liam]

The Mito appears to have reached saturation point since Alfa lost control of the used market for them as would be expected after 4 or 5 years on sale . That's if a couple of threads on the Mito board are anything to go by, with people unable to shift them

I'd agree it seems harder to shift 2nd hand MiTo's from comments on here & the amount 'lingering' on AutoTrader, but they are quite an attractive purchase brand new with the cheap finance & fairly decent residuals, so you could see why some people are reluctant to spend thousands on a private sale. The cheapest MiTo currently for sale (on AT) is £5000 & they've been around 4.5 years, whilst the cheapest Giulietta is £8000 - it's been on sale 18 months less & cost at least £5000 more to buy new. When you look at that, the MiTo doesn't look half bad for retained value. The Giulietta looks stonking value second hand though!

I live in barrow in Furness and have travelled to Carlisle and am also in touch with the Blackburn Alfa dealer roughly the same distance away.i was really disappointed the Carlisle dealer didn't have the engines I stated in advance available for a drive.even asked if I was prepared to do a deal on the day and the Blackburn dealer wanted a deal "to meet his quota for the month" within hours and I hadn't driven or even seen the car as I was only ringing him for his best price.been unprepared for the pressure I was put under.not too sure if that is common to all dealers.

Not all dealers are like that. I used to sell cars (not Alfa's though) and we didn't operate in the manner you describe. You don't have a massive choice of Alfa dealers near Barrow unfortunately. Lloyd Carlisle & Blackburn Motor Park are pretty much the closest and you've already tried them.

However, if you can deal with the trek, I'd try Bauer Millet in Manchester City Centre. I've not used them, but a lot of members here have and there's rarely a bad word to say about them. I lived in Manchester for a time & the showroom looks superb - they've got the Abarth franchise too One of their guys is on here too and frequently posts information & help for people. They seem like a thoroughly decent outfit.

Otherwise you'd be looking at travelling into Yorkshire or Scotland to find one of the other good dealers (Western Edinburgh & Piccadilly Harrogate, which is a mission for even the most committed enthusiast!

 

[Fairhurst]

Multiair 170 all day long!

You don't need to give it the beans all the time, it's a nice sedate runaround when you want it to be and it's still peanuts to insure.

:thumbs:

Indeed it is. My premium last week, fully comp, was £180. That's no more than the VW fox 1.4 I used to have as a second car.

 

[wowbagger]

I chose the 170 Multiair over the 170 diesel because I prefer petrol engines, it is a nice engine but does not sound as good as Alfas of old.
I have had 45mpg on a long run but I tend to average around 36mpg over a tank, if you allow for the fact that petrol is cheaper, the difference in fuel cost compared to the diesel is not vast unless you are doing a very high mileage, also the diesel will probably wear its front tyres out faster due to the higher nose weight and torque.
I would say test drive the both the 170 petrol and 170 diesel and go for the one you like driving more, I would not bother with the 120.

 

[rhett71]

I chose the 170 Multiair over the 170 diesel because I prefer petrol engines, it is a nice engine but does not sound as good as Alfas of old.
I have had 45mpg on a long run but I tend to average around 36mpg over a tank, if you allow for the fact that petrol is cheaper, the difference in fuel cost compared to the diesel is not vast unless you are doing a very high mileage, also the diesel will probably wear its front tyres out faster due to the higher nose weight and torque.
I would say test drive the both the 170 petrol and 170 diesel and go for the one you like driving more, I would not bother with the 120.

I think you are spot on with that analysis, the 120bhp feels underpowered and give us diesel owners another 3 years and we will all be talking about front ARB replacement like on the 147. But what a drive the diesel gives when its right!! I can't imagine ever going back to a petrol powered car, given the performance of modern diesels, I had a year in a similar power rated car running on petrol and it was really surprising especially when climbing hills!!

 

[collezione]

Thanks to all concerned.both 120 and 170 driven and veloce 170 now ordered for sept 1 on a good deal!

 

[rhett71]

petrol or diesel??