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Discussion Starter #1
these damn high petrol prices have cause johnny howard to try and put 10% ethanol as standard in all petrol in australia to lower prices by around 10c a litre!

im unsure if any other countries run ethanol blended petrol but i checked up on the alfa romeo australia website and this was quoted
"E10 (10% ethanol blended) petrol, however, is not recommended for post 1998 alfa romeos except in emergency situations as there are material compatibility and drivability issues."

is this true?

if so, will a lot of car companies object to this coming in to action. i'm sure Alfa isn't the only manufacturer to have this in their guidelines.

will this affect my bella or is it just a bunch of lies?
 
S

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Your PM wants to blow up your Alfa? What a c*nt!! :lol:

...I hear he wouldn't curtsy to the Queen either! :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
its neck and neck ;) between the two i think!

anyway, do you think if this goes through, it will affect the car, or is it not really that important?
 

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Well Diesel Alfas are ont he way ;)

News Link on Proposal

If what I have read is true then 1 barrel of Alcohol takes one Barrel of oil to produce :rolleyes:

The people pushing this are the sugar industry...hardly an enviromentally friendly industry .

I wonder if they will largely 'bung' it in to the "peasant fuel"...91 Ron because that is where the screaming about prices is largely coming from..

The Liberal party is supposedly about Choice. Tell the Australian Prime Minister that we demand, an expect choice, and not mandatory Ethanol in our fuel. Email link
May not do any good but will create some work for the staffers ;) :D


From Alfa Australia site
"Ethanol
All Alfa Romeo vehicles imported since 1998 must run on minimum 95 R.O.N. fuel (premium unleaded petrol), but will operate satisfactorily on E5 (5% ethanol blended petrol European Standard EN228). Note E5 is not available in Australia at present. E10 (10% ethanol blended) petrol, however, is not recommended except in emergency situations as there are material compatibility and drivability issues. E10 ethanol blended petrol is not recommended for earlier model Alfa Romeo vehicles due to material incompatibility."
 

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Discussion Starter #7
i have just emailed our PM and i hope i get a response some time soon, that way i will know my tax dollars are at work! :p

speaking of which though, i sprained my ankle last sunday and have not been able to drive my bella...i can't wait to get back on the road and burn some petrol!!!
 

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chef_adrian said:
i have just emailed our PM and i hope i get a response some time soon, that way i will know my tax dollars are at work! :p

speaking of which though, i sprained my ankle last sunday and have not been able to drive my bella...i can't wait to get back on the road and burn some petrol!!!
I am currently working on a polite but firm response to the Prime Minister ;)

Have now emailed the Honourable John Howard, PM
 

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I think you're likely to have premature fuel line failure, degredation of the fuel pump and the knowledge that someone is making a killing out of it :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
as long as they only put the ethanol in the 91 RON petrol and leave my 98 RON BP Ultimate alone!

i'm willing to pay the extra 10c a litre and i hope many other owners who use 98 will agree
 

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chef_adrian said:
as long as they only put the ethanol in the 91 RON petrol and leave my 98 RON BP Ultimate alone!

i'm willing to pay the extra 10c a litre and i hope many other owners who use 98 will agree
Don't you mean 20c a litre as they claim you will save 10c a litre,but for how long ;)
 

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I was reading an article re Ethanol in Fuel and the following was interesting.
"Adding 10% ethanol to gasoline will lower driving costs, but not necessarily. Ethanol contains less heat energy than gasoline but this reduction in power is minimal compared to the decrease in fuel economy because of the additional oxygen released from the ethanol in the combustion chamber. Adding oxygen in the fuel improves combustion efficiency, but on modern fuel injected cars, this extra oxygen passes out with the exhaust gases and the oxygen sensor detects it. This is reported to the fuel injection computer which calculates the engine is operating in a lean fuel mixture state and add more fuel to compensate. Fuel mileage drops. "

E10 in Australia
If I undertand it correctly E10 would give about 2.8% worse Fuel Economy and in the Australian Context would cost 7.8% more to buy E10 based fuels which would be payed by the coonsumer directly or through subsidies to the Ethanol industry.........

However a big worry, as outlined in the original article, is excessive water in your fuel .
"Ethanol acts like gas line anti-freeze. Adding additional gas line anti-freeze won't be necessary in winter, but keeping the water out of the fuel becomes very important. When a 10% ethanol blend is contaminated with over .5% water, the ethanol and water mixture will separate from the gasoline and fall to the bottom of the gas tank. This can cause the vehicle to run poorly or stall. The water can come from condensation inside the tank, bulk storage tanks or even your local filling station. Normally, any water sits at the bottom of the filling station tanks and doesn't mix with the gasoline, but when 10% alcohol is added, the water and alcohol do mix with the gasoline. The water ends up in your tank. Filling your vehicle at carefully monitored filling stations could be important. "

Another Article by Caltex may be of Interest as well

However obviously the concern is no labelling up to E5 which the Government has currently reproposed.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
wouldn't it be just as simple to give us a damn chioce?

still haven't received anything from the PM about my e-mail...
 

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chef_adrian said:
wouldn't it be just as simple to give us a damn chioce?

still haven't received anything from the PM about my e-mail...
Well a choice would be the simple way...Politics is about making the simple complicated ;)

I have also not recieved a reply ...not that I was actually expecting one.
As a Citizen, you are only important until you place your vote .

Unfortunately the choice is shrewd 'little Johnny' or "Wheres the Booze hiding", 'Sleazley Beazley'
 

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i wouldnt be so quick to scream up and down about ethanol in fuel - johnny certainly wont care :D . from what ive seen so far United has been selling its ethanol blend as a 95 octane blend and at a lower price than it 92 octane unleaded! It remindes me of when people found about tolulene being added to fuel 'oh it will destroy our cars!' yet people have been using it as an octane booster for decades. the only reason it will give you problems is because it is so effective at cleaning your fuel system it can clog injectors etc with all the accumilated crap that is normally in the average fuel system :rolleyes: besides most unleaded has had up to 5% ethanol for some time now.... i really cant see it being a problem. and re the enviromental benifet i thought that most of the ethanol produced was a by product of the sugar process anyway?
 

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sprinten said:
i wouldnt be so quick to scream up and down about ethanol in fuel - johnny certainly wont care :D . from what ive seen so far United has been selling its ethanol blend as a 95 octane blend and at a lower price than it 92 octane unleaded! It remindes me of when people found about tolulene being added to fuel 'oh it will destroy our cars!' yet people have been using it as an octane booster for decades. the only reason it will give you problems is because it is so effective at cleaning your fuel system it can clog injectors etc with all the accumilated crap that is normally in the average fuel system :rolleyes: besides most unleaded has had up to 5% ethanol for some time now.... i really cant see it being a problem. and re the enviromental benifet i thought that most of the ethanol produced was a by product of the sugar process anyway?
Toluene is probably more of a danger to living creatures than to a car....especially if your car does not have a catalytic converter.

Who are United?


My complaint is that the Australian Government is proposing that no labeling is required for Ethanol up to 5%.
I have no complaints about a small percentage of ethanol being added to petrol, as long as I know about it. Otherwise how do I know I am not being ripped of... ie paying full petrol prices for a product that gives me worse fuel economy?
 

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Hi Stori

Has it yet been confirmed that ethanol will be added to ALL unleaded petrol? I've heard that it may be added to 91RON ULP only. (here's hoping)

Sprinten - ethanol is bad news because it has approx. 68% the energy value of petrol. It will artificially raise the octane rating, but actually contains less energy. Also, it corrodes fuel lines, and other internal engine componants. It may or may not clean your injectors, but what's the point when it's also eating away your fuel pump and lines? Ethanol's environmental "benefits" are also open to conjecture. I've seen reports that categorise it's emissions as much more carcenogenic than petrols'. Have a read of the links in Stori's earlier post....

SS
 

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splashalot2000 said:
Hi Stori

Has it yet been confirmed that ethanol will be added to ALL unleaded petrol? I've heard that it may be added to 91RON ULP only. (here's hoping)

Sprinten - ethanol is bad news because it has approx. 68% the energy value of petrol. It will artificially raise the octane rating, but actually contains less energy. Also, it corrodes fuel lines, and other internal engine componants. It may or may not clean your injectors, but what's the point when it's also eating away your fuel pump and lines? Ethanol's environmental "benefits" are also open to conjecture. I've seen reports that categorise it's emissions as much more carcenogenic than petrols'. Have a read of the links in Stori's earlier post....

SS
I am not sure where Ethanol will be used if the Government allows E5 to be sold as normal petrol but I gather the government appears to have circummed to the Agrarian Socialist Party aka the National party to enforce a quota system for Ethanol use (Report)

Ethanol good for the Enviroment?


Somehow I suspect that Ethanol is about as useful as windpower in reducing damage to the enviroment.
 
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