The 147 156 & Gt engines are different to the 159 as they are ( what i call ) smaller engines, by that i mean that the cam belt they use has 198 teeth where as the 159 has the taller engine and uses a 199 tooth belt.
The 159 engine is indeed in some Vauxhalls but also Saab 93s and 95s, and Fiats though not sure of the model but are you sure you have bent valves as the engine has rockers at the top of the valves which are designed to break if the cam belt goes to save engine damage. The 1st thing I'd do I remove the cam cover and see how many rockers are broke and see if there's any bent valves, youll probably haven't and valve damage and just need a new set of rockers which is £60 a set and new cam kit and youre good to go

 

Have you taken the head off yet?

 

The way I see it if you was to fit a 2nd hand engine it would be wise to replace belt kit and water pump as you would be unsure of history. Plus if you can swap a lump over you are more than capable of resolving the issue you have.
At best you will need belt kit,water pump,pulley,rockers and serpentine belt. At worst get a recon head off autolusso with associated parts and I bet the costs will be around same as cost of engine and belt kit anyway.

 

The part of the post relating to the engines being different is incorrect. The cambelt lengths are dependent on whether the engines are cf3 or cf4. Changeover was around 2005/6. 147/GT could have either engine fitted.

 

Thanks all, excellent advice as expected!
Already been down the "sacrificial rockers" route. For some reason I really don't understand none of the rockers are broken. Yet with the cams off (so valves closed) two of the cylinders won't hold pressure and leak smoke. You can also see with a camera marks on the pistons where they have hit the valves.
Given no rockers broken I did wonder whether to reassemble and hope, but the garage thinks that would be a waste of time and money. Is my local trusted garage who have now done a good four hours investigation for which they are only going to charge me an hour but think to proceed with either a rebuild or replacement engine would be looking at £2k bill which isn't viable.
I did wonder about recon head. Do you think it would matter pistons show marks from impact?
Any specific advice from anyone on exactly which engines fit and whether a donor Vauxhall/Saab might cause issues would be greatly appreciated.
Am I right in thinking the Alfa 1.9JTDm is identical to the GM Z19DTH?

 

Seems excessive to replace a whole engine just due to a snapped cambelt. Normally its just the rockers or at worst a head. Marked pistons are not USUALLY an issue. I only ever had to do it one...Grand Cherokee (snapped chain) and only because the pistons had hit the vales so hard that a couple of the big end bearings had flat spots!!

 

Sounds like we need to get the head off once is retrieved from the garage before we start buying old motors...

 

Get the head off and speak to autolusso about a recon one,I seem to recall the head was about £250 then add gaskets etc. If rockers aren’t broken the damage to piston will be cosmetic.

 

I agree. Dozens -probably hundreds - of these engines have cosmetic piston damage from ingested metal swirl flaps, but have been repaired to lead long and happy lives. This was 1 flap causing 2 bent valves - looks bad but diesels have thick crowns. I did finesse sharp edges a tiny amount with a fine file. Bores were untouched. Recon head from Autolusso was £250 exchange. You probably wouldn't get away with it on a petrol because of the pre-ignition risk from hotspots, but 4 years later it's still running perfectly.


If you don't DIY, the labour costs will be a bit eyewatering - I think Autolusso said it was about 1 or 1.5 days of workshop time (it took me about 3 weeks of part-time blundering, in between snow and rain). But spread over years of future life, and using the opportunity to de-flap, delete the EGR and take the turbo-murdering gauze filter out of the oil feed line, it's cheaper than writing off the car and buying another one that will have problem of its own.

 

Alfa 159 has a little bit different engine. Not all 1.9 JTDm 16v are the same!
The 1.9 in the 159 has a different oil pump and filter system compared to the other 1.9 in 147, GT, Stilo and Bravo.
When you looking for a used engine, you need a 159 engine. No other 1.9 JTDm 16v engine has exactly this oilfilter system!!!

Z19DTH is the same engine but some parts are different like the engine mount braket and so on.

 

Mine was exactly the same after it ingested 2 flaps, ran perfect after head change.
The worst bits of mine were removing injectors and the separator down the back. Had I had all bits to hand then it would have easily been achieved in a weekend while doing on the drive. They are surprisingly easy to work on apart from the 2 issues mentioned above.
Although I suspect you could probably leave the separator alone and lift head with inlet on still? I didn’t with mine as it escalated from manifold deswirl in to head job after finding the flaps gone.

 

I used Vauxhall Signum/Vectra C Z19DTH engine as a replacement motor for my Alfa. Just because Alfa's engines was about 2-3 more expensive than Vauxhalls. They are exactly same units, fabricated in FPT factory. Just Vauxhall uses different accessories. But they are inter exchangeable with Alfa's ones.

You will need to change:
1. Oil pan
2. Oil level sender
3. Oil filter housing
4. Engine mount bracket which bolts on to engine

And thats it, engine is ready to go into Alfas engine bay.

 

There are quite a few internal differences....especially in the head (combustion chamber design etc) as ALFA pretty comprehensively reworked the motor....but yes they are interchangeable.

 

Show us the difference, please. Head, block, pistons, rods, crankshaft are the same.
What can you change in the combustion chamber? Head is flat and cylinder is round.

 

I will dig it out. I have some of the dealer promo literature from the launch somewhere...lists the differences....I think they were trying to prove a point that it was different and not just a recycled Vauxhall lump!.

 

The head is now off, and to be honest I can't see anything wrong!
There's no signs on either valves or pistons of impact. Valves look like they are seated properly, but not sure how meaningful that is. The garage reckoned that two cylinders weren't holding pressure but I am starting to wonder now.
So as I see it two courses of action: 1.Put it all back together now re-time and and see (hope). 2. Take the valves out and inspect.
I guess 2 is the sensible route now I've come this far. May be a daft question, but how do you tell if a valve is bent? i.e. is there a tolerance on straightness?

 

Put all pistons half way down and fill bores with a brake cleaner see how fast it drains away.
With head on it’s side fill whichever ports are facing up see if anything leaks past valves,spin head round and do same with other ports.

 

Post should say with brake cleaner and not with ‘a’ brake cleaner.

 

Thanks Johnny excellent advice, saved me loads of time. No signs of any leakage through valves or down cylinders.
So guess we rebuild, which leads to some more questions:
This is my son's car so we want to spend as little as possible and get things done pretty quick, however as everything is off now:
Swirl flap delete? Worth doing? Pro is avoids risk of failure in future, but have read of loss of low rev torque, also the cost. Interestingly flap on No2 cylinder (from belt end) is missing!
Inlet manifold is full of crap. Not blocked, but seems obvious good practice to disassemble and clean. Does it actually make any difference or will it just fill up again?
Head bolts. Car is 56 plate but only 50,000 miles. I'm inclined to reuse the bolts, but is that a silly gamble? Also elearn refers to a special "angle tool". Is it ok to torque as normal and then tighten "by eye" the extra angle?
What else to replace other than obvious gaskets and belts? Is water pump really necessary?
I've never re-timed a twin cam engine before. Various advice on web from cam locks a MUST, to "you can get by without them". What's the consensus?
Being a bit lazy but is there a link to a good "walk through" on refitting the head to 1.9 diesel?
Thanks to all, would be a bit lost without all your help!

 

Have answered a few of my own questions.
Concluded that swirl flap delete is probably a good idea given one has already failed.
Will clean out inlet manifold but leave EGR alone, don't really want to open that can of worms and get into remaps etc.
Cam lock tool seems a must and not expensive. Likewise water pump.
Still not sure on head bolts. According to elearn you can reuse a few times so inclined to go with that. Also any guidance on how to tighten head bolts please?

 

Stage 1 32-38NM
Stage 2 62-68NM
Stage 3 90 degrees
Stage 4 90 degrees
Stage 5 90 degrees

9 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 7
8 - 4 - 2 - 6 - 10 (flywheel end)

Risk of failure makes swirl flap delete a necessity, pretty much. And the swirl flap delete makes the EGR delete a really good idea, as without it you'll probably find it a little bit lacking in natural torque at low rpms before there is positive turbo pressure. Similar symptoms to a slightly stuck open EGR valve. EGR delete fixes that, and is relatively cheap & easy to do. I charge £150 inc VAT, but if customer has already fitted their own blanking plate it'd be less.

 

Thanks Pud237
I was put off the EGR delete because I understand it will put on warning lights without a remap. Is that correct?
What are your thoughts on re-using cylinder head bolts? As I understand it they are not stretch bolts.

 

Its not really a remap as such (although the process is the same), I always refer to it as a software modification. Fuel qty, boost, none are touched. The only change made is to command the EGR valve never to open. That way the ECU is not expecting any EGR flow, and see it never throws up the P0404 code. If you blank the EGR valve off without modifying the software then whenever the EGR is commanded open, the ECU will not see a corresponding fall in the air mass meter value and therefore after a while of this happening it will trigger a P0404 code.

 

A software change is outside by limited abilities and equipment, but presumably could get that done relatively cheaply once the hardware is sorted? Have also been reading threads about restricted (as opposed to blanked) plate. Would that work without any software change?

 

Yes defo remove the flaps while it’s in pieces,snap flaps off,remove the gear mechanisms,tap holes to m6 I think it is and loctite in some m6 bolts. Just keep the motor.
Clean all the crap out of manifold. I never noticed any difference at all post flap removal.
Defo change water pump.
Head bolts not 100% sure but I seem to recall reading they can be re used however they are torque to yield so should be replaced.
Angle torque I did by eye,if I remember it is 90 degrees measurements so easy to do by eye.
Have a real good look inside head for swirl flap as I suspect it will be lodged by inlet valve if there is no internal damage where it has gone through.

refitting is just same as removal but in reverse.

cam locks are required as it’s the only way to time the camshafts up,with cam box off lock both shafts to make sure both in time. Inlet one will need to be removed when refitting the inlet manifold though. Locking kit can be had for £15.

 

Johnny you're a star! There it was jammed behind the valve stem! Bugger to get out but now removed.

 

Nice one at least you have got the little bugger out so you know it’s not lurking like a ticking time bomb ready to wreck your engine