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Way Off Topic Topics in here are quite off topic but do stay within the rules...

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Intertesting reading here, https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/e...f-a-wto-brexit

especially for anyone still believing the "WTO Rules will be great" lies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pascal Lamy, Director General of the WTO from 2005 to 2013
Jumping brutally from trade league one (the internal market without borders) to trade league three (a WTO, multilaterally committed trade regime for goods and services) would certainly hurt.
Also from the article:
"some Leavers have claimed that the WTO provides for continued tariff-free trade in the event of no-deal. In a recent BBC leadership debate Johnson referred to the now-infamous “Gatt 24, or whatever it happens to be,” a clause from WTO forerunner the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, that would allegedly preserve low tariffs in the event of a crash out.

What is the truth of the matter? Alarmingly, when I put this question to AzevÍdo (current WTO Director General Roberto AzevÍdo), he said Gatt 24 would simply not apply with a no-deal outcome. “Article XXIV of the GATT is simply the provision of global trade law under which free trade agreements and customs unions are concluded,” he explained. The problem is that it only kicks in in the event of such a deal being struck. “If there is no agreement, then Article XXIV would not apply, and the standard WTO terms would.”

These “standard WTO terms” would include increased tariffs on British goods imported into the continent, 10 per cent on cars and rising to more than 35 per cent for dairy products. In addition there would be extra bureaucratic hurdles for businesses to leap over on things like product standards and sanitary checks. The rules do little for services, which make up 80 per cent of the British economy and close to half of exports.

As Lamy explained, under WTO rules, Britain could not just lower tariffs specifically for EU trade because without the formal framework of a deal that would count as granting unfair, privileged access. The “WTO regime implies tariffs which have to apply to all [the UK’s] trade partners,” he said. There is no simple way around this and the EU is bound by the same rules."

If anyone thinks B J and co know more about the truth on WTO than the current and former Director Generals of the WTO....... I give up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishendrix View Post
Intertesting reading here, https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/e...f-a-wto-brexit

especially for anyone still believing the "WTO Rules will be great" lies.


Also from the article:
"some Leavers have claimed that the WTO provides for continued tariff-free trade in the event of no-deal. In a recent BBC leadership debate Johnson referred to the now-infamous “Gatt 24, or whatever it happens to be,” a clause from WTO forerunner the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, that would allegedly preserve low tariffs in the event of a crash out.

What is the truth of the matter? Alarmingly, when I put this question to AzevÍdo (current WTO Director General Roberto AzevÍdo), he said Gatt 24 would simply not apply with a no-deal outcome. “Article XXIV of the GATT is simply the provision of global trade law under which free trade agreements and customs unions are concluded,” he explained. The problem is that it only kicks in in the event of such a deal being struck. “If there is no agreement, then Article XXIV would not apply, and the standard WTO terms would.”

These “standard WTO terms” would include increased tariffs on British goods imported into the continent, 10 per cent on cars and rising to more than 35 per cent for dairy products. In addition there would be extra bureaucratic hurdles for businesses to leap over on things like product standards and sanitary checks. The rules do little for services, which make up 80 per cent of the British economy and close to half of exports.

As Lamy explained, under WTO rules, Britain could not just lower tariffs specifically for EU trade because without the formal framework of a deal that would count as granting unfair, privileged access. The “WTO regime implies tariffs which have to apply to all [the UK’s] trade partners,” he said. There is no simple way around this and the EU is bound by the same rules."

If anyone thinks B J and co know more about the truth on WTO than the current and former Director Generals of the WTO....... I give up.
Bojo! Statesman, or arrogant buffoon?

It seems, no matter what his sycophantic devotees would have us believe, his judgement is slave to his ego.

A real credit to the Conservative Party, providing a window into the machinations of the wealthy and influential who would tailor our Democracy, for what it is, to their tastes.
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Bojo! Statesman, or arrogant buffoon?
I just glanced at that and knew immediately how I felt.

Mick.
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Of course it takes two to make GATT XX1V work, thatís a statement of the obvious (though possibly not to Boris Johnson). The real question is why would the EU not tango? They benefit from free trade to the tune of £96 billion a year Ė our trade deficit with them. Thatís 5% of our GDP!

The answer is that they are terrified that if Brexit is a success other countries will follow us out, so they try to trap us in a quasi colonial status with Teresa Mayís putrid withdrawal agreement. Then they can make sure Brexit is painful enough to have us asking to rejoin.

WTO rules will be difficult for those who canít cope with change, but for the agile there are big opportunities. Take cars: 10% tariffs might knock our exports down by a third (the only estimate Iíve found) so we lose 224 thousand export sales (2018 figures).

The EU exports 1.8 million cars to us so the same 10% tariff loses them 600 thousand sales in the UK.

Net gain to our manufacturers: 600 Ė 224 = 376 thousand extra car sales, and costs are lower because they donít have to be exported. (No wonder then that BMW is showing interest in the Honda plant.)

Our £96 billion deficit with them means that the same logic applies in most areas. Take Beef: we export around a million tons to them, they export around two million tons to us. 40% tariffs would probably decimate this trade, so our farmers gain by up to a million extra tons. What they canít supply sheep farmers can benefit from, and the rest we buy on the world market.

Donít be afraid of change Ė look for the opportunities.
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....is that 376k extra less car sales not made and sold then? :doh:
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Of course it takes two to make GATT XX1V work, that’s a statement of the obvious (though possibly not to Boris Johnson). The real question is why would the EU not tango? They benefit from free trade to the tune of £96 billion a year – our trade deficit with them. That’s 5% of our GDP!

The answer is that they are terrified that if Brexit is a success other countries will follow us out, so they try to trap us in a quasi colonial status with Teresa May’s putrid withdrawal agreement. Then they can make sure Brexit is painful enough to have us asking to rejoin.

WTO rules will be difficult for those who can’t cope with change, but for the agile there are big opportunities. Take cars: 10% tariffs might knock our exports down by a third (the only estimate I’ve found) so we lose 224 thousand export sales (2018 figures).

The EU exports 1.8 million cars to us so the same 10% tariff loses them 600 thousand sales in the UK.

Net gain to our manufacturers: 600 – 224 = 376 thousand extra car sales, and costs are lower because they don’t have to be exported. (No wonder then that BMW is showing interest in the Honda plant.)

Our £96 billion deficit with them means that the same logic applies in most areas. Take Beef: we export around a million tons to them, they export around two million tons to us. 40% tariffs would probably decimate this trade, so our farmers gain by up to a million extra tons. What they can’t supply sheep farmers can benefit from, and the rest we buy on the world market.

Don’t be afraid of change – look for the opportunities.
That’s brilliant! Don’t know what I have been so worried about.

Complex financial and trading agreements, which took decades to establish, condensed into a few simple sentences.

I can’t believe, at this late stage, anyone could get away with such childlike naivety. Of course, this all presupposes, this individual is going to keep his job. Or his company is not going to suffer the consequences of the downturn in the economy. Or his investments will suffer as more and more companies fail.

I suppose, he eats a lot of lamb and beef.

And I suppose, he thinks, on the 31st October, BMW will immediately start to produce cars at the ex - Honda plant and the current workforce will be seamlessly re - engaged by BMW and as we are such a multitalented workforce, there will be no issues regarding the fact, on the 31/10 they were producing Hondas and on the 1/11, they will be building M5s

Dear God, is this the cream of the Brexit Philosophy? Cloud cuckoo Land or what! Some tw-t was standing in Parliament, saying, he is going to stay up all night on the 31st Oct, to watch the Sun rise on a free nation.

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! The Messiah has returned! I’m off now to buy the winning Lottery Ticket.

Last edited by sizewell; 1 Week Ago at 06:00.
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Donít know what all the fuss was about! Itíll clearly be alright after all.
All the companies in the rest of the world are stepping forward and we are too busy trying to overcome the problems caused by Brexit to be progressing with investment for the future. The motor industry is reworking itself for a bit of a revolution but itís not going to be here.
But itís going to be alright as we will get our sovereignty back under our own rules. The fact that Boris wants to switch off politics so he can go ahead with it without them questioning the action does not look good for democracy.
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From what I read at the time, BMW's interest in Swindon was dependant on Brexit not being the almightly cluster**** it looks like being, and they more-or-less denied it anyway. It has, as they say, all gone quiet over there.

I know people are tired of facts but according to Farmers Weekly UK beef exports are forecast to fall by 5% this year to 139,000t, while imports will drop by 2% to 438,000t. Total production is expected to be 880,000t. Effectively, if we lose the imports, we are 299,000t short so UK production has to go up to 1,179,000t from a standing start. Can UK farmers ramp up production by over 30% instantly? This also assumes that what we export isn't the manky bits that we won't eat that are only suitable for dog food. If we can't produce it, where else can we get it from?

The idea that being a net importer puts us in a strong position is complete nonsense. It's predicated on the idea that everything we import is immediately available from elsewhere at much the same price. The reality is that other places are further away than mainland Europe (look on a map if you don't believe me), the same tariffs apply, only BMW make BMWs. Yes we might get trade deals but look how agreeing an interim deal with our nearest neighbours has gone, and we were apparently holding all the cards with that one.

Three years on and people are still attempting to sell the dream of Brexit instead of looking at the cold, hard facts of life.

And I've been dragged in again!

Auto Express - six issues for a quid. Offer must end soon (and then immediately start up again).

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After reading the "Daily Mail Readers" thread, the next post I read was 13,504 in this thread. . .
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The change to our country and its industries coincides with changes to the motor industry and food production driven by the increased ecological awareness of emissions. If our politicians werenít busy competing amongst themselves and talking about Brexit we could be getting ourselves to make the most of veganism and the car becoming a rent-by-the-hour commodity.
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And I've been dragged in again!
I feel the same way.

More later, I've got a life to live.
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Yes your life will be better by the end of the year!*




*based on naive and possibly incorrect assumptions/information.
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Originally Posted by keithyboy View Post
From what I read at the time, BMW's interest in Swindon was dependant on Brexit not being the almightly cluster**** it looks like being, and they more-or-less denied it anyway. It has, as they say, all gone quiet over there.

I know people are tired of facts but according to Farmers Weekly UK beef exports are forecast to fall by 5% this year to 139,000t, while imports will drop by 2% to 438,000t. Total production is expected to be 880,000t. Effectively, if we lose the imports, we are 299,000t short so UK production has to go up to 1,179,000t from a standing start. Can UK farmers ramp up production by over 30% instantly? This also assumes that what we export isn't the manky bits that we won't eat that are only suitable for dog food. If we can't produce it, where else can we get it from?

The idea that being a net importer puts us in a strong position is complete nonsense. It's predicated on the idea that everything we import is immediately available from elsewhere at much the same price. The reality is that other places are further away than mainland Europe (look on a map if you don't believe me), the same tariffs apply, only BMW make BMWs. Yes we might get trade deals but look how agreeing an interim deal with our nearest neighbours has gone, and we were apparently holding all the cards with that one.

Three years on and people are still attempting to sell the dream of Brexit instead of looking at the cold, hard facts of life.

And I've been dragged in again!
“And I've been dragged in again!”

Then stop making both relevant and valid observations!

Stick your head up your arse and pretend there is light at the end of the tunnel.

And when you finally pull it out on the first of November, you too will see dawn breaking over a newly freed Britain.

Once, you have wiped the Shyte; which is Brexit, from your eyes, you too will feel an overwhelming sense of well-being.

Or perhaps not!
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Pete our brexit loving mate isnt happy with the way its going

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I can’t see how anybody can be happy with the way it’s going. We’ve always irritated the rest of Europe and now we’ve stormed out they’re probably quite relieved they don’t have to think about us. It’s not like they’re going to run after us demanding we come back. They’ve got plenty to get on with. We are spending all of our energy going nowhere. The only financial activity is stocking up to keep things going until we realise what’s been done for us.
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Pete our brexit loving mate isnt happy with the way its going

Pete North Politics Blog
Poor old Pete, still doesn't understand that the EU is or stands for.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaDrivingFan View Post
Poor old Pete, still doesn't understand that the EU is or stands for.
I'm assuming typo and should have been,
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Originally Posted by AlfaDrivingFan View Post
Poor old Pete, still doesn't understand what the EU is or stands for.
?
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Poor old Pete, still doesn't understand that the EU is or stands for.
Even MEPs have no idea what the EU does so poor old Pete has no chance...

ďIn my first two weeks as a member of the European Parliament, I've stumbled into a baffling realization.

Next to nobody in Brussels has any clue what the European Union truly stands for ó beyond a flag and an anthem ó and more crucially, where it is heading. And that includes the EU leaders and senior officials soullessly waddling through the corridors of power.Ē
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^It's customary to name the source of a quote.

I would hazard a guess that, if that is a genuine quote from a newly elected MEP, it will be from a Brexit Party Member, who would be contractually obliged to spout codswallop like that.
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^It's customary to name the source of a quote.

I would hazard a guess that, if that is a genuine quote from a newly elected MEP, it will be from a Brexit Party Member, who would be contractually obliged to spout codswallop like that.

But, the other side of the same coin would be an MP from a remain party who is contractually obliged to spout codswallop that contradicts that I imagine.

Mick.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mick.p. View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishendrix View Post
^It's customary to name the source of a quote.

I would hazard a guess that, if that is a genuine quote from a newly elected MEP, it will be from a Brexit Party Member, who would be contractually obliged to spout codswallop like that. <img src="https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/images/smilies/thumbs.gif" border="0" alt="" title="I like it!" class="inlineimg" />

But, the other side of the same coin would be an MP from a remain party who is contractually obliged to spout codswallop that contradicts that I imagine.

Mick.
To be honest if a UKIP/Bexit MEP told me it was raining I'd look out of the window to check.
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Farage and his mob have been just yapping
dogs within the E.U. Parliament. A total irrelevance.

I have stated before, the E.U. Parliament should be scrapped.

Better we have Parliament made up of representatives made up of M.P’s, elected through the General Election process, i.e. normal M. P.’s, the political allegiance, proportional to the number of seats the parties won at a General Election.

The E.U. commission returning to its original Brief. The administrative Body, of the Political Body.

I will expand on my idea, but a little meditation is required at the pub.
Several pints of bitter, did not illicit an answer as to how a political body, which occupies not a single seat in Parliament, can claim to represent a Nation of 66.4 million souls, given the turn out is generally lower than that for Parliamentary Elections.

If the E.U. Is to be criticised, it is for allowing a Body Political, that has no Democratic Authority, anywhere within Europe, to exist!

There is a need for reform. And it is the E.U. Parliament that needs it. It is a massive Junket/Gravy Train of a Body, with no political clout and a total waste of money.

I reiterate, Westminster ought to appoint sitting M.P.’s to sit for six monthly terms (believe E.U. President is rotated six monthly). Political Party representation should mirror Westminster.

This way, The House could not be circumvented by supposed political bodies, that have alternative agendas to that of Mainstream Government.

All Heads of State must unanimously agree on any changes to the E.U. This could be extended to unanimity of all heads + E.U. Parliamentary Approval, which would then make the whole process Democratic.

Last edited by sizewell; 1 Week Ago at 10:18.
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Quote:
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Poor old Pete, still doesn't understand what the EU is, or stands for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishendrix View Post
I'm assuming typo and should have been,

?
Corrected.

Trying to type quickly again, back to two finger typing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrishendrix View Post
^It's customary to name the source of a quote.

I would hazard a guess that, if that is a genuine quote from a newly elected MEP, it will be from a Brexit Party Member, who would be contractually obliged to spout codswallop like that.
Is that from Dr David Bull, MEP for Brexit Party Limited and prolific tweeter of lies and nonsense.
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Is that from Dr David Bull, MEP for Brexit Party Limited and prolific tweeter of lies and nonsense.
Bull is his middle name!
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