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(Post Link) post #1 of 39 Old 20-06-16 Thread Starter
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156 1.9 JTD 2002

DIY basic tuning, 156 1.8 JTD 8v, please rate :)

Hi all,

I've slightly tuned my 156 within the ECU limits.
SOI goes to 70 mg/stroke and most limiters were at arround 55 mg/stroke, so I upped every limiter and map to inject a max. of 70.

I've very slightly increased RP and boost.
I do not want the maximum torque and hp, but it would be nice if it was a little faster

I'm still struggling with SOI en duration factors, I see factors:
-0,023438 and 0,023438 with offset -78 or just 78.
but also factor 1.

For duration I quess it is in uS (microseconds) and the factor is 0,976000?
For SOI it should be in degree BTDC, right?


Also, can someone review the changes I made? I mostly edited within the powerband from 2000-4000 rpm, below or above is not needed.

I do not want to wreck my car

Here is the ori, mod and my map pack:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...0c1MUlOLVlMSFk

Thank you!
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Hello,

Injection for 70mm3 is "OK" stock. Over 70 need to be done.

Boost not so bad but, you forgot 1 map "Boost air temp limiter 10x10" so your new boost won't work really > > > EGR closed (magic bit), you need to edit VNT maps because overboost due to EGR blocked.

Rail ok but unnecessary. You should know that injection won't go over 74mm3 with 1400bar (pump limit). Before you game with rail should to know about SOI.

Forget rail and SOI now and do injection and boost better.

My experience with same engine was:

119cv stock on dyno
137cv stage1 60-65mm3 (200k km).
154cv stage 1+ 70mm3 (320k km).
Now stage 1++ 83mm3 (350k km) It should be 182cv theorically and 175 really (not dyno).

Regards.

Last edited by ceecao; 26-06-16 at 12:23.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 39 Old 26-06-16 Thread Starter
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Thank you, I've done some things in the meantime and learned that rail is linked to duration so I set it back to stock. Also allready modified the boost temp. limiting map. I changed boost only to meet up for 70mm3 and left the rest stock.

What more do I need to do for injection quantity? Do I need to change every axes from 52 to reach 70? The car is allready a lot faster I might add, so it isn't doing nothing.

I will check again and post the latest files

Overboost hasn't been a problem since I removed all EGR hardware 5 years ago, but I will monitor boost and change if nessecery. As said, I moved back to stock except for 70, which is added to the boost and limiter map.

I was thinking about editing the smoke map to come closer to 16:1 instead of sometime 22:1 AFR to gain a little more. Or will this defenitly create smoke?

Last edited by sanscorp; 26-06-16 at 03:29.
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(Post Link) post #4 of 39 Old 26-06-16 Thread Starter
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Well, I did find the map you mean, but don't know how to edit it further then this (attachement).
Is this correct?

Also the latest files here:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B0...2pkWDBOU19fWHM

Maybe you can show me some screenshots from your file (or the file itself) of what I have missed or could do better?

Thanks again!
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File Type: jpg all_boost_maps.jpg (163.2 KB, 58 views)

Last edited by sanscorp; 26-06-16 at 07:29. Reason: Small Change, new screeshot.
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Good morning,

about injection duration I reviewed it from my notes. Stock maps are "OK" for 70mm3, leave this map stock. I updated my first post.

About boost I uplodaded your image with comments:

- 77CF4: OK
- 77B04: OK. Check Atm. pressure from OBD. I suppose your'll read 980mb-1000mb normally due to your low altitude country. It's relevant to know that real boost you'll have after limiters. For me (500m altitude) I read 960mb a sunny day so I must to setup limiters for this.
- 75788: FAIL. Check air temp from OBD, I think you'll read +30 ºC intake so your boost won't go over 2200mb (you want 2272mb).
- 77F24: FAIL. From 2750rpm your boost is low and not lineal 2200-2140-2151 ?¿ Use your 77CF4 map.

About smoke map when you fix boost and do some logs from OBD you'll can read MAF and MAP numbers (mb and kg/h or mg/i), then you'll know how much AFR you have. You'll see the big and dangerous overboost in WOT from 1500rpm to 2500rpm (over 2300-2400mb probably) and should fix it.

70mm3 with your actual boost in medium revs should be 0 smoke, the hardest work here is set up VNT maps to get lineal boost without spikes, it's crucial for performance and reliability (turbo, head...).
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File Type: jpg all_boost_maps_r1.jpg (154.8 KB, 56 views)
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(Post Link) post #6 of 39 Old 26-06-16 Thread Starter
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Thanks, much obliged!

The average airpressure here in the Netherlands is actually between 1015 and 1018 for the whole country from the year 1981 till 2010. But offcourse I want to read it via OBD, but I assumed this average as a baseline for starters.

Also when going on holiday, I do not want to overboost when in the mountains so I left everything below just stock for protection.

I wasn't aware (or told/had read about) that the VNT map needs editing. I did read why NOT to edit it unless you change turbo other then stock. I will check for overboost now.

The temperature here and now, summertime, is 16 degrees but we sometimes have 30 degrees.
I am also going to modify the intake so it only gets cool air from outsite the engine bay, but that is yet to come.

I also have WMI but this only cools the air after MAF en turbo, so has no effect on the sensor data and thus maps.

Now copied the linear map into the none linear map (only copied existing rows and columns).
Will return smoke to stock and will focus on (possible over) boost

But I will have to search and find out how to change the vnt maps. If a spike occurs, do I have to lower the numbers in that region?



P.s. I cannot test WOT yet because the clutch slips.. installed a stage 1 with SMF last year an 34.000 km ago but the garage messed up.. I now guess it has oil on the plates. Planning to do it myself soon, when the wether is better and I collected the guts to do it.

Last edited by sanscorp; 26-06-16 at 12:54.
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Yes, not many people know about EGR and overboost (some professional tuners included because they do dynos without logs). You will see something like my attached old log.

Good notice here is that this engine and turbo are so strong. I was running 2 years 100k km with 2290mb theorical boost but, real +2400mb overboost daily. When I say big overboost it's doing burnouts in 2 second gear dry road and third gear wet road without mechanical issues.

Don't worry but, fix it
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(Post Link) post #8 of 39 Old 26-06-16 Thread Starter
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I am curious why EGR can cause overboost.
I have read that some ECU's monitor EGR and adjust MAF so you shouldn't remap the EGR to fully closed all the time.
In that case use the switch and don't touch the map.

When working, the EGR would lower the MAF and therefor reduce boost when EGR is active, or am I wrong?
Or is the loss of boost compensated by the boostmap to take EGR into account?

In that case, using stock value's in active EGR regions within the boostmap would stop this problem right?
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It's simple, VNT maps was designed for EGR working.

EGR map is desired MAF when engine sucks real intake air and fake exhaust EGR air mixed (example 30-70% so it reads 300-600 mg/i and not 1200 mg/i).

When EGR is off all fresh air comes from intake (without exhaust recirculation), MAF read is big because engine sucks without compensate EGR exhaust and overboost comes. Then stock VNT maps must be lowered (region 0-40mm3 and 0-3000rpm aprox) If you see vnt maps in 3d mode you will notice that zone.
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(Post Link) post #10 of 39 Old 26-06-16 Thread Starter
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Very clear, will dive into the vnt maps and report back

EDIT: Got it by the looks of it, I selected most of the VNT map that needs minimizing I think.
As I cannot test @WOT, maybe I'll make it lineair and see what happens with boostpressure.

I can log fully as soon as the clutch is repaired.
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Last edited by sanscorp; 26-06-16 at 16:10.
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(Post Link) post #11 of 39 Old 26-06-16 Thread Starter
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Will make a new reply to notify of a response, also see previous reply (edit with attachement).

2 questions:
Do I need to edit the VNT axes to include 70mm3? It now stops at 64.

And is lineair OK for this map, like for example now edited: 2500 2750 and 3000.
I could do the rest of the map the same, from right to left (starting outside EGR range and then just +1 to the left).
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File Type: jpg VNT_Lineair.jpg (180.1 KB, 31 views)
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Well, you did see that zone yeah.

VNT mm3 axis can stay stock.

VNT linear is not bad for first test (it must be lower anyway). You'll need to log first.

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Wil see how far I get with logging stock and lineair

Small update: I now installed a WiFi OBD reader and have AlfaOBD on my phone.
Only problem is I can't open the logs in my PC yet haha.

But, highest recorded boost is 2462, not at WOT but that will come.
It is too high anyway so I'll start lowering it to prevent damage.
Will finetune later.

Last edited by sanscorp; 26-06-16 at 20:17.
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Well, I've modified both so the numbers are lower.
Alltough I didn't get a good testrun today (traffic and OBD quiting in me) I did see a huge difference in boost.
I regulary saw requested 2000 and actual boost 2200, so an average of 200 mbar too much (overall).

Today I quickly saw requested 2000 and actual 2050, so average overall max 50 mbar more then requested.
This is what I got now (see attachement).

Do have the idea that there is a little less umpf in the car and WMI sets in later (because boost is lower).

I quess TOO low VNT value's will give lower boost then requested and is also not good for the turbo and for smoke (because requirements can't be met), but I haven't seen a DTC or smoke so I quess it's OK.

Both maps are different by the way, so I just copied a small bit into the lower map and left the most of it stock. So one map is completely lineair and the other just until 3000 rpm.

I know I have to log, but what do you think?
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Last edited by sanscorp; 27-06-16 at 19:34.
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Hello Mr,

not good last maps. Too low...

1000-1250rpm always 75% for all columns
1500rpm between 70>60
1750-2500rpm is the ZONE.

You use 1% changes between, it's not ok except for last columns (60-64mm3).

You can use these last to prevent overboost but, turbo'll be slow and PID'll work each second

It's better start point post #11 map and work 1750-2500rpm zone (with logs).

You did see 2462mb then,
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It's a lot of trial and error And yes I almost saw the magical border of 2500.. So that made me lower it way like in the previous post.

I will leave the first 3 rows (1000-1500) just stock: 75 for first two and 70-69 for third row.

Eventually I have to edit from 1000 till 3000 rpm and from 6 till 25-40 mm3 because this is the active EGR area. This part I understand correctly right?

Can you give an indication of how much lower is should approximately be?
Are we saying if original is 68%, lowering it to 65% is enough for starters?
Or should 1750-2500 rpm be between 60 and 50 perhaps?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm trying to understand how much impact changing a number has..
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Yes it's idea.

Aprox. 1% is 30mb.

2.000rpm around 60%
2.500rpm around 55%
3.000rpm around 50%

Last mm3 colums are lower of course.
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Check now I have an idea of what I'm doing haha. Will tweak again an report back. Do have to work unfortunatly so it will be mostly in the evening. Friday is my day off so I can do more work and test/log.

EDIT: For test I now assume a maximum of 6,6% change (plm 200 mbar) and hopfully log this morning to work.

Last edited by sanscorp; 28-06-16 at 05:21.
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Just because it would make it easier: There are 2 maps for vnt and both are different. Are both maps used or is only one active? If so, how do I figure this out? I can lower one extreme and see what happens, but maybe it is used under different circumstances?

If both maps are used I have to adjust them seperate and it will take twice as long to log and adjust.

I also have been offered a secondhand (less then 1000 km's) stage two clutch for 150 euro's so if this is usable for a daily used car I will go with this. Stage 2 might be overkill but it saves me 50% on a new stage 1 clutch.
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There are 3 VNT maps:

- 77102 Eco-normal driving
- 77400 Sport driving
- 778D0 Gear transition driving

Yep, so much work lol.

Easiest way now, copy 77102 to 778D0, then tweak these and 77400.

Eco works when drive is normal (soft and slow throttle)
Sports works when, I'm trying remember, there are +20% or +40% throttle position in 1 second or 100% continuos throttle (if not it back to Eco)
Transition like his name says (can use Eco now)
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I'm really close and even having an e-mail conversation with the maker of AlfaOBD to edit his software for an even nicer graph and app options

But I have no more overboost above 2500 and just edited the 3000 rpm range with -2 in ECO and Sport VNT maps.
Requested was 2204 and measured was 2462, so a "little" high there, rest is OK I quess.


Am I aiming for measured just above requested or can it be higher as long as it doesn't go over 2500?
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Measured always must to be so close to requested as possible.

2204 vs 2464mb is a "big" difference, it's 260mb that you don't need and turbo are doing for nothing. See it like stage1extreme useful for one thing only, to die turbo soon

I attach two real logs, one is that you have now (we suppose) and the other how it should be.
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File Type: jpg bad.jpg (15.7 KB, 136 views)
File Type: jpg good.jpg (13.1 KB, 136 views)
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I guessed so, that's why I started adjusting so it was just above requested but I always doubt a lot and then start asking (sometimes obvious) questions...

It was sarcastic that "little" but I'm on the right way with getting the numbers down.
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that "little" did look like for me

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I did notice one strange thing, requested boost 2292 when all limits are set at 2272.

Could be a fluke offcourse.
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