147 JTDm 16V 150BHP -> 170BHP log - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 28 Old 18-05-16 Thread Starter
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147 JTDm 16V tuned to about 170BHP (plse examine the log)

Hi,

See post #6

or

OK here is the new log in 4th and 5th gear with cleaned MAP sensor




Last edited by Z900; 26-05-16 at 13:42. Reason: add
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what are we looking for, what issues do you have ? or trying to cofirm its 170hp from the log.
looks odd to me around the 2000=2500rpm the mass airflow is way too high for the given boost pressure.
i would try removing and cleaning the map sensor and log again.
also might be worth checking for any boost leaks in hoses etc.
and a higher gear might be advisable 4th seems to be the norm for the logs.
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Thanks sussexa,

I did a swap from my old 147 (same motor, ecu is a different number but it seems hardware is the same) tuned by Squadra NL (a well known AR tuner).

So i want to know if the swap is gone in the right way.

OK, I'm going make a log in the 4th gear shortly.

Not really having issues at the moment, car is running well, just for the check.

Last edited by Z900; 19-05-16 at 10:51.
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Hi all can anyone out there tell me to set up the cables for the gear shift I can get all gears except reverse, not sure what cable does what!!?
Thanks
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one cable for left/right movement of the stick (up/down on the gearbox control), one for forward/backwards movement.

the reverse gear is locked by a lift up, that's likely your issue?
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(Post Link) post #6 of 28 Old 19-05-16 Thread Starter
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OK here is the new log in 4th and 5th gear with cleaned MAP sensor





Last edited by Z900; 04-06-16 at 00:01.
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nobody ?
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Nothing to say about my log ?
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hard to tell from screenshots rather than the log but 4th gear still looks to be very high maf airflow for given boost pressure.
its definately a jtdm and not a jtd 16v ? as if its the 16v it may only have a 2.5bar map sensor and its going off scale with overboost , this would make sense for the high maf airflow.
for 2500mbar boost id expect maf to be only 1200-1250mg/i
or for 1500mg/i maf id expect 3000mbar + boost pressure
do you have a boost gauge to confirm sensor readings are plausable ?
any signs of splits or tears in tubing after the maf , vapour trap or breather pipes .

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Thanks susexa ! (in the next days i check your remarks)
There is 1 thing that is not good: leakage through the swirlvalves to the outside of the intake manifold (worn seats).

Well on the back of the car is the logo: JTDm, don't know how else i can see if its really a JTDm.

I've just flashed a modified tuning in the car, in the next days i make a log again.

Here is the text log:


Last edited by Z900; 26-05-16 at 21:38.
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Too high airflow, 10-15%... if it is a leak, get it sorted ASAP.
Your turbo will not be too happy with this on the long run.
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(Post Link) post #12 of 28 Old 28-05-16 Thread Starter
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Thanks TribesMan !
OK I did a new log, but nothing change really.

If I upload the tuned file, are you guys willing to help me to point me to the right way with the file ?

edit: just inspected the tubing, this is what i saw, looks not good to me ?!


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someone was playing with maf linearization? Maf reading are to hight, maybie for 2.8-2.9bar boost pressure.
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So far as I know there was no adjusting of the MAF linearisation (which mapaddress do you mean?)

Presume that there are no leakages, how can I decrease the too high airflow ?
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Don't presume... Check, and if you don't find any leaks, double check.
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(Post Link) post #16 of 28 Old 31-05-16 Thread Starter
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Thanks TribesMan, i sure do it again.

Maybe you can point me in the right direction to get less smoke.....

What should the calculated AFR be ?


Tell me if can someone make it less smoke above 3500rpm and under heavy load ?
I will be glad to sent the tuning file and see what you've done....

Last edited by Z900; 31-05-16 at 22:36.
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(Post Link) post #17 of 28 Old 04-06-16 Thread Starter
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Today I flashed the original mapping and there was no smoke.
So I presume that the tubes etc. are OK.

Also I did a log and the calculated AFR (mass-air-flow/total IQ) was now almost at all rpm's .... 18 (instead of 14-15 with the tuned mapping)
With a max IQ of 70

I would like to know how i can reach no smoke with a max IQ of 82 (like my tuned file).
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at AFR 14-15 you'll get smoke, no doubt about that.
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basic answer is reverse your formula
you want smoke free 17 afr at 82mm3 you need 82*0.84=68.88mg iq x 17(afr)=1171mg/I of maf air
so you need either better cooling to create a denser air charge which will increase maf for same boost pressure , or you need to increase boost pressure till you reach desired maf air.
unfortunately both these will work your turbo harder and potentially past the safe limit of turbine shaft speed.
to check your inlet temperatures do a log of maf temperature c and boost pressure c and maybe boost pressure and revs and give it a 4th gear full throttle again and review temps.
also bear in mind if you have boost leaks like manifold swirl flaps your not getting the measured maf to the engine so you may need more like a measured 18afr to get real 17afr to engine.
also id be blanking the egr totally for a test to see if aything changes maf to boost ratio as its the easiest thing to do and most likely place to be leaking anyway.
had a look in your map hopefully tribesman can confirm as hes tuned many of these but i think the jtdm could withstand another 50mbar at the top end , from 3000rpm to 4000rpm but as weve already stated if a boost leak is suspected still you will be overspeeding turbo even more.
hopefully he can pull up a log off another car and check your vnt% compared to others and if for instance others on average are at 25%-30% vnt at 4000rpm at 2400mbar at 78mm3IQ
and yours is doing around 38%vnt all other things equal, would suggest you have a leak and car is increasing vnt to maintain boost.

Last edited by sussexa; 04-06-16 at 10:24.
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(Post Link) post #20 of 28 Old 04-06-16 Thread Starter
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Thanks sussexa !

1.
My AFR is just the result of the (intake air quantity)/(total IQ) !
I don't know if its right and if it is the same you guys are talking about the AFR ?

2.
As I look at the results of my log below, I see that there is enough air (> 1171mg/i) with IQ so around the 80mm3/i
https://embed.gyazo.com/a7fdcfd5f84a...352955ae23.png

3.
Here is the log result of yesterday (org map only EGR blanked mechanically and software adapted ...with no (black) smoke)
https://i.gyazo.com/5ccac53c5d76249d...775c5e2e36.png

4.
Is it enough to disable the EGR completly with :

1C30E8 all to the max (1200)
1C356C all to the max (1400)


or should I adapt the following maps too

1C4B08 (to 0000)
1C4B6E (to 0000)
1C4BD4 (to 0000)
1C4C3A (to 0000)

?

Good to Go Tribes tuned - 1.9 JTDm 16V BlueDigione 2006 - 180BHP BottomdieselpoweR

Last edited by Z900; 04-06-16 at 10:57.
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that would work if fuel iq was in mg but its in mm3
so its mm3*density(i use 0.84) gives fuel in mg then maf/mg
so in excel i use maf/(mm3*0.84)
this should increase your calculated afr from say from 15 to 18 or so.
again if your seeing smoke this again suggests a boost leak somewhere,
do another column with your next log also and call it boost ratio, just divide boost by maf to give a figure around 1.9-2.1 it should be a fairly constant ratio and will high light strange readings.
14 5 16 maf boost ratio suspect leak.png

14 5 16 post airbox sealing maf boost.png
i recently went to 80mm maf and logging showed ratio varying too much, went back and sealed better hoses after maf turbo inlet and breather/ vapour trap and logged again and you can see how much more constant it is except on off throttle where i think i see some reverse flow affecting maf on sudden let off.
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(Post Link) post #22 of 28 Old 08-06-16 Thread Starter
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OK thanks Suxxeca !

I did what you told: no "spikes" to see i think....
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(Post Link) post #23 of 28 Old 16-06-16 Thread Starter
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today the inlet manifold was replaced with a non swirlvalve type.

Less smoke, almost gone

So you guys were right...massive air leak
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well lets hope its fixed but best to recheck by repeating some logs.
id be interested how much mass airflow and boost is lost and gained through a badly leaking swirl pivots.
also i cant imagine this will have changed the huge over reading of the maf in earlier logs where you had 1500mg/i+ in 3rd i think it was ?
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(Post Link) post #25 of 28 Old 17-06-16 Thread Starter
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The max airflow i got in 4th gear is 1363 at 2042rpm

24,6 1490 39,1 745 1404
25,6 1582 39,5 778 1507
26,5 1689 73,2 979 1877
27,5 1841 76,2 1211,5 2280
28,4 2042 79,2 1363 2510
29,4 2277 82,1 1322 2484
30,3 2487 82,8 1348 2536
31,2 2691 83,1 1316,5 2512
32,2 2914 83,2 1305 2541
33,1 3119 83,3 1289,5 2539
34,1 3314 83,3 1270 2573
35,0 3507 82,8 1265,5 2571
36,0 3678 81,8 1231,5 2551
36,9 3858 79,2 1171 2519
37,8 4030 76,9 1172 2507
38,8 4170 74,9 1134 2468
39,7 4315 73,3 1098 2436
40,7 4440 71,2 1070,5 2410
41,6 4548 68,3 1042 2371
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