147 1.9jtd 8v @ 2260vzk, and more upgrades - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 47 Old 27-02-16 Thread Starter
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147 1.9jtd 8v @ 2260vzk, and more upgrades

Hello Everybody.

First sorry my English. My name is Istvan, and i from Hungary (Budapest). Few month ago i started built my alfa romeo. This car 1.9JTD, 8v, 116ps.
Major modification:
-2260vzk @2bar (from porsche panamera diesel)
-60mm full open exhaust
-Front ic 550x180x65
-60mm ic pipes
-honda s2000 air filter
-map senzor from Mjet 3bar-1bar=2bar (I will exchange it 1.9jtd twinturbo map 4bar-1bar=3bar map)
-Air mass senzor off
-EGR off
-Manky Remap

This car is:
150.2kw @ 4665rpm (204ps)
370nm @ 3360rpm


We have misgivings about it, that the nozzle is rather big, but the CR pump is not. So i think, i will buy an R65 or R70, and we make the Water-methanol injection. What do you think? It's oke, or i think wrong? And r65 and r70 exactly which one, and on what kind of cars was?
Thanks any answers.
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Nice project, but it must drive horrible in lower revs with this big turbo. Did you can share a log file?

Fuel pump: look here => https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...l#post13673474
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(Post Link) post #3 of 47 Old 27-02-16 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crossshot View Post
Nice project, but it must drive horrible in lower revs with this big turbo. Did you can share a log file?

Fuel pump: look here => https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...l#post13673474
Log file? Maybe....

Last edited by mocsanisi; 27-02-16 at 15:46.
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No, i mean a log file with injection quantity, air quantity, boostpressure, vnt control and rpm.
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It is a big turbo, but still it should be able to spool up around 2000rpm quite good.
Judging form the dyno printout it seems that your current ECU map, or some VNT settings are holding you back a lot.
It looks very laggy, you should be able to improve that a lot with proper settings.

I think the decision to remove MAF sensor is wrong. It is very hard to control turbo spool and injection in low revs without MAF.
So you either have very bad spool or a lot of smoke. Not ideal situation.
I would suggest you to install MAF sensor from 2.4 JTD 20V 175HP engine. And the fuel pump from this engine is also a good choice for your needs.

3.5bar or 4bar MAP sensor is definitely a must have upgrade in your case. How much boost are you running at the moment?

Water methanol injection is good choice, it will help you to achieve more top end power, when injectors are maxed out.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 47 Old 27-02-16 Thread Starter
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At the moment the pressure is 2bar, boost 2.3-2.4 at 2-3sec.
WM inj. i think go lower level EGT.
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Result is not outstanding, I think you are using the wrong turbo. The lower band is a no-go, bet it's smokey and the power kick will not be good for your transmission or for the wheel grip.
You can squeeze much better 230HP with a 1756. 1856 or a 2056. Look at whatever JS JTD is doing, it is a way much better option.
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If you do a better remap, you'll have much more Nm and Hp with this setup.
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(Post Link) post #9 of 47 Old 02-05-16 Thread Starter
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.

Last edited by mocsanisi; 03-05-16 at 01:09.
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(Post Link) post #10 of 47 Old 03-05-16 Thread Starter
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So....

About 5-6 weeks ago, my gearbox is death. The 3. gear dissapear. I buy the used 5 gear gearbox.
I go the Stefan Zorst Racing, and buy a new motorsport sinter clutch.
I change the VNT controll the pressure ball / boost ball (i dont know what this name is in english) So the pressure control the turbo geometric. The ball made by Balatoni Péter, and settings by Orosz Árpád. (2.4bar boost)
After these "Manky" (ifj. Lengyel Ákos) write the new ecu map. The new setting 230hp/400nm, and 2-3-4-5gear no smoke.
My new tires "Westlake sport rs" 205/45/r16, and stock speedline wheels.

DRAG VIDEO (10celsius, 14.8sec in 1/4mile)
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Looks good. Is it with or without WMI? And is it still with MAF off?
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(Post Link) post #12 of 47 Old 04-05-16 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Looks good. Is it with or without WMI? And is it still with MAF off?
Without WMI, and MAF off
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Are you using an aftermarket ECU or the stock ECU?
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(Post Link) post #14 of 47 Old 05-05-16 Thread Starter
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Are you using an aftermarket ECU or the stock ECU?
Stock ECU (EDC15C7), and Manky remap.

And a little video: Hungarian Alfa Romeo 147 230hp/400nm
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Wouldn't an aftermarket ECU (or piggyback ECU) using the manifold pressure, intake temp and engine RPM to determine the AFR give you much better results? Especially since you're not running a MAF or MAP sensor?

You would also get better results if you were using a wideband O2 sensor to get more accurate AFR info for the engine tune wouldn't you?

Aftermarket ECUs are a bit expensive but the benefit of having an ECU that can be tuned efficiently and effectively unlike the stock ECU would be worth the money in my opinion.

Please note that I am not a turbo expert by any stretch so I could be wrong. But I do think using an aftermarket ECU and wideband O2 sensor would give you much better results than the tune you currently have.

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Use a bigger MAF and an egt gauge in the exhaust manifold. That is all what you need.
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(Post Link) post #17 of 47 Old 07-05-16 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Use a bigger MAF and an egt gauge in the exhaust manifold. That is all what you need.
I have an EGT gauge
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Where is the probe installed? Which diameter has the probe?

How high is the egt in 4th and 5th gear @4000 and @4500rpm?
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In this setup it must support around 240 hp btw.

I have similar but different turbo and stock ic + kn closed in box air filter with 60 mm dp and exhaust. My turbo is 2052v ( tdi 2.7). At 1.5 bar it comes around 206 hp. You should get a better tuner i guess.
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You have a 16V engine! You can not compare it with the 8V.

Last edited by crossshot; 11-05-16 at 09:37.
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The stock 1.9 Vectra with an aggressive remap will do a 1/4 mile in 15.1 seconds, so your time seems quite low for the stated power in that lighter car.

If you have concerns about the pump struggling, you need to log a run and compare the demanded rail pressure to the achieved. If the pump is past its limit then you'll not be able to achieve the demanded pressure.

To really improve driveability, you either need a smaller turbine or a gtb unit. I run a GT18 and that turbine can flow enough air on a 16v for 270bhp and the standard GT17 flows enough for 250bhp. So I would agree with some others that the choice of turbo setup is not great. A bigger compressor on a smaller turbine would work better but a GTB is the ideal answer.
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Quote:
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... and the standard GT17 flows enough for 250bhp.
How would you get 250hp with GT1749VB? We're talking about the GT1749VB? This is 100hp over stock!

I can't belive that. And when a GT18 is good for 270hp, all People with GTB2056V are stupid?
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The gt17 turbine not gt1749 unit
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Ok, I understood. thank you
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Yes, just the turbine was what I was referring to as you'd want a 43mm or larger compressor inducer to comfortably run 250+bhp. A smaller compressor would struggle or fail to flow enough air and you'd be smoking like mad if you did achieve it.
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