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(Post Link) post #1 of 6 Old 03-11-15 Thread Starter
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Upgraded intercooler against water meth inj

Does anyone have any data or failing that an opinion on how much an upgraded inter cooler would lower intake temperatures compared to water meth injection with a standard intercooler?
The upgraded intercooler is the Autolusso one and I am trying to ascertain what the max sustainable performance could be from the std turbo before biting the bullet and going for a hybrid turbo install?
I know I would need the turbo to get into the 300bhp club however I would be very happy if I could achieve between 250 -280 bhp from the existing mods and remap. Ok closer to 280 if possible lol.
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IF you raise boost over the standard 22psi at all, the temps will start to rise quickly and the stock intercoolers are prone to balooning and rupture due to the increased temperature and pressure. Even a small Front Mounted InterCooler (FMIC) will get temps down dramatically. I ran 27psi on a stock cooler with an Outside Air Temperature (OAT) of 25 deg C and was exceeding 80 Deg C boost temps; after fitting a FMIC that dropped to high 30s.

If your intention is to raise boost in any way I would recommend changing the intercooler first.

Water methanol is not an effective means of cooling charge temps on a diesel as you are still carrying that energy into the combustion chamber and pre-heating the water methanol mix. It is a very effective method of lowering EGTs but my perivious testing showed a power loss for anything under a 60% methanol by volume.
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Its strange how poor the std intercooler is at exchanging heat, its a massive intercooler at 600x440x30 but it isn't in the ideal location in the rad pack, I moved mine to the front in one of my early experiments:
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...ml#post3482535
results showed IAT dropped to 60c from 70c...yeah not great for all the work...so intake dropped to 60c with ambient of 28c and 26psi boost.

I later installed a much thicker core with better internal design which made the biggest difference as Nutron says this is essential if your going to hit 300hp from higher boost in the future, and this follows ambient with just a few degrees difference at 30psi.
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...ml#post3608805

However, attatched is an early dyno that may be of interest with Std turbo, std intercooler in std location, std exhaust with dpf delete. F1 remap, egr delete, iirc boost is 26psi.
3 runs show a P-box (plug n play tuning box), second run is with F1 remap, 3rd run is F1+water/meth.

I wouldn't go higher than 26psi my self on stock intercooler, it has crimped end caps that will probably fail, so 270hp is about whats possible with help of a little water/meth....if you want 300hp its cheque book time I'm afraid!! and if you read on in my thread you'l see how much is involved for another 30hp...not sure its worth it!
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File Type: jpg AHM Original F1 dyno.jpg (47.1 KB, 23 views)
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As nutron and jbsmith1 says - Intercooler will give you best bang-for-buck.

Water/Meth benefits Petrol turbo motors more than diesel turbo as it helps prevent detonation (over-and-above the evaporation charge cooling) due to the water molecules "loading" the flame front (for a lack of technical description)
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Thanks for the responses guys.
I'm not quite ready to part with the sort of cash needed for a larger turbo, at least not until the original gives up.
It was jb's thread regarding 270/280 bhp in std config with water meth that got me thinking what I could achieve with a std turbo.
I have had a larger intercooler fitted by Autolusso including other std mods like egr,Dpf,swirl flap deletes and remap, but am a little reticent over fitting water meths.
My main concern is fitting a tank large enough so that I don't have to keep refilling it all the time yet not losing lots of space as the alfa is the sensible car.
I think the next step is to get the car on a rolling road and see what boost level, bhp and torque it's kicking out.
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Yeah filling up with water/meth is just second nature after a while, you get used to it, so don't be put off.

Yes its funny you mention 270/280 bhp, after AHM's the very next day I was invited to WGT.
WGT use a hub dyno it showed 280bhp/480lbsft there...numbers numbers...what does it all mean? and thats the problem, do you win on the dyno? or the street?
FileF1Map.jpg Photo by jbsmith1 | Photobucket

I started monitoring power gains by filming the speedo doing 60-100mph (try this?) this is also a nice way to monitor if your going in the right direction, its this window of speed I have my most convincing victories in Driver skill has a big part to play too, but I'm not giving all my secrets away.

There's no doubt the stock 2056 turbo can make enough boost for an indicated 300hp, the problem is keeping the egt under control, I like to call it "constipated turbo syndrome" so beware.
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