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(Post Link) post #1 of 6 Old 28-09-15 Thread Starter
Status: Working Hard On 156 Veloce 3.0 Turbo Project
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Is this bull

I asked a seller of a not so cheap tuning box which are all new to me as we didnt have them in my day, but i have seen a few people using tuning box's on there diesels .

Is it a glorified resistor we used to put on the maf back in the day .. im not buying it im just curious if they do work or not for normal cars

it connects via OBD2 and he said .. quote below (made by pro racing)

"The device after connecting the OBD2 diagnostic connector reads the data from the computer of the car. Gets all the information supplied to the computer and analyzes them. On the basis of the original map, Having collected data creates a new one. Selecting the appropriate settings algorithms operate in a safe limit of 30% of the output power. The generated map is shown on the external controller which is now the car computer will download the new map. When you disconnect your computer back to its factory settings - reads the original map from your memory."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKe9BOR5l9s

All spares parts for 156 and 147 being sold that i will not be using (cheap) nothing too small ask what you want , willing to post world wide Phone 07922123242 Ask for Neil and say Mark said to phone .

Download link for Alfa 156's http://www.filedropper.com/alfaelearn

Last edited by paul.o; 29-09-15 at 17:25.
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Basically, if you are bosch and have all their tools you can live map any recent bosch ecu.
Bosch does only release the tools to engine manufacturers and similiar - however that doesn't mean that somebody couldn't have reverse engineered the protocol (in the end this is how most of the aftermarket tuning is done - by reverse engineering ECU and official bosch tools).

So, theoretically it is possible to create a box that will read the map from the ECU and change it while engine is running and then for all the modifications to disappear when ECU shuts down.
Practically - it is unlikely that someone actually did it - and even if they did - being able to talk to the ECU and tell it to do whatever you want is not going to make the car go faster. You still have to know what to modify and by how much - which is why i don't believe in this box - one box that does all diesel cars via OBD - and it doesn't even say it's bosch ecu specific (you have few other less common manufacturers that use completely different protocols).
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You can't live map, the ECU can not run and be changed at the same time because it uses a CAN BUS and writing to the ECU means it can not talk to the control modules and the car will instantly stall.

You can read the map out via the OBDII port when the car is on but not running and you can write a different one back in. So what they are offering is the same as many other places offer, a box that reads out the map, identifies what variation it is, changes the duration table to add 30% more duration and writes the map back in. This is the same as most mappers do and bypasses the need to change any limiters.

So they are offering a remap via a box. The box would cost about £15 and the map about 30 seconds of work but the software to do the job might have taken a couple of days to write. No better or worse than taking it to a mapper.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nutron View Post
You can't live map, the ECU can not run and be changed at the same time because it uses a CAN BUS and writing to the ECU means it can not talk to the control modules and the car will instantly stall.

You can read the map out via the OBDII port when the car is on but not running and you can write a different one back in. So what they are offering is the same as many other places offer, a box that reads out the map, identifies what variation it is, changes the duration table to add 30% more duration and writes the map back in. This is the same as most mappers do and bypasses the need to change any limiters.

So they are offering a remap via a box, no better or worse than taking it to most mappers.
CAN is a multipoint bus so ecu can talk to the programming device and rest of the car at the same time - the same way it talks to MES, body computer, ABS, dash and other units at the same time when it's running normally.

Going back to what i said earlier, ECU is capable of being live mapped, but you either need bosch tools (and unless you are engine manfacturer and buy 1000's of ecus from bosch you are not going to get them) or reverse engineer protocol that official tools use to talk to the ecu (nobody did that yet and it will be a lot more effort than reverse engineering protocol used for flashing the ecu).

Modern bosch ECUs shadow the eeprom/flash, which is why using eeprom emulator and mapping it using aftermarket tools doesn't work like it used to work on older ECUs, but this makes live mapping using official tools very easy, as the only thing the official tool has to do, is to authenticate itself with the ECU, and tell it to modify ram version of the map, it can also read back all the status information (a lot more than you can get via generic OBD reader or MES) so you can see how the changes are affecting everything internally.
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If you want a faster car, buy a faster car
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(Post Link) post #6 of 6 Old 29-09-15 Thread Starter
Status: Working Hard On 156 Veloce 3.0 Turbo Project
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostyDog View Post
If you want a faster car, buy a faster car
Very true ghosty but that wasnt the question . but if they do work to help timing and mixture it would aid my project untill i can afford a dyno remap

But if its just the same as the old resistor trick its no good for man or beast


And thanks guys for replies
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