What uprated compressor for the gtb2056v on a 159 2.4 Qtronic - Alfa Romeo Forum
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What uprated compressor for the gtb2056v on a 159 2.4 Qtronic

I have a gtb2056v from a 210hp that needs a new compressor wheel,
Do you guys have any suggestions? Should i go billet?
I want fast response and spool, not so much for top end power.

injectors , and ic are kept stock
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(Post Link) post #2 of 72 Old 18-08-15 Thread Starter
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Got some new wheels too btw , 10,5x20 Maserati ghibli wheels with 245/30/20 tires , they bearely fit , but look awesome!
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GTB2260VK from audi is very easy to fit, I do it...You can use gtb2056 turbine housing.

GTB2060VKLR in my opinion is best choice for spool, I have one in my garage, but is hard to fit....is taking a lot of dust!
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hi, if you need to replace that compressor wheel then may as well go billet, also if your just after better spool time decat and remove dpf will help, also water/meth helped my spool up and low end torque, see this old dyno taken with stock turbo and intercooler.
image merged dyno.jpg
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i had the gtb2265v on my 156 20v with the 2056v housing , so i know that works.
I'm not planning on using a bigger turbo , just want to upgrade the 210hp one.

Yes I was planning on a billet one. Joel opted for a Kinugawa , which should be a straight fit , but my turbo builder said it was a B-brand wheel and wasn't sure of its quality ..
What should i do?
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Hmm, looking more closely to the the pictures of the kinugawa it's has kinda rough edges , doesn't look like very high quality indeed.. Any of you guys ever used one of those?
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Quote:
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i had the gtb2265v on my 156 20v with the 2056v housing , so i know that works.
I'm not planning on using a bigger turbo , just want to upgrade the 210hp one.

Yes I was planning on a billet one. Joel opted for a Kinugawa , which should be a straight fit , but my turbo builder said it was a B-brand wheel and wasn't sure of its quality ..
What should i do?
What should I do?? thats easy mate Talk to Adam at Tdi turbo's with your requirements, I know he does a "56" compressor wheel that has slightly taller blades and extended tips that flows alittle better over the stock wheel and is alittle lighter too with a thinner nose and some machining off the rear face, that may do the trick for you, or he may be able to design you a custom wheel.
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Of course I did already send Adam a message on fb but hè didn't answer yet..
I'll check for his mail address and send him a mail.
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Of course I did already send Adam a message on fb but hè didn't answer yet..
I'll check for his mail address and send him a mail.
great

btw just seen the picture of those 10,5x20 Maserati ghibli wheels on your car! don't give me idea's lol but they look fantastic!!
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They are taking a long time to reply since they moved.

Extended tips would not help with lag but may move the spool threshold down the rpm range fractionally if all other dimensions remain the same. The inducer and tip height are going to make the biggest difference to spool threshold and how much the compressor flows. I've used billet versions of the same wheel and seen no measurable difference either in the VNT required to achieve a set boost level or the power output of the engine.

If you are happy with the way it drives now then just use the same size wheel again. If you want more power and torque then you'll need to accept the spool threshold moving a bit and get a slightly bigger inducer.
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Quote:
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Hmm, looking more closely to the the pictures of the kinugawa it's has kinda rough edges , doesn't look like very high quality indeed.. Any of you guys ever used one of those?
kinguawa is known to work in the Nissan Silvia/180/200/240sx Scene as upgrade parts.
They seem to come pretty close to the Garret wheels....
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They are taking a long time to reply since they moved.

Extended tips would not help with lag but may move the spool threshold down the rpm range fractionally if all other dimensions remain the same. The inducer and tip height are going to make the biggest difference to spool threshold and how much the compressor flows. I've used billet versions of the same wheel and seen no measurable difference either in the VNT required to achieve a set boost level or the power output of the engine.

If you are happy with the way it drives now then just use the same size wheel again. If you want more power and torque then you'll need to accept the spool threshold moving a bit and get a slightly bigger inducer.
there is a bw kkk bv50 on the car right now , the stock turbo.
The garret gtb2056v is the direct replacement for this car , but i've bought one with a damaged compressor.
as the gearbox cant withstand a lot more torque im aiming for spool and response , not so much high end power.

so there is little to no diffrence between billet and iconel wheels?
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In that case I'd stay with the standard size wheel but a billet of the same size with extended tips might give a minuet improvement.
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Quote:
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there is a bw kkk bv50 on the car right now , the stock turbo.
The garret gtb2056v is the direct replacement for this car , but i've bought one with a damaged compressor.
as the gearbox cant withstand a lot more torque im aiming for spool and response , not so much high end power.

so there is little to no diffrence between billet and iconel wheels?
In my experience for sure the spool is not a problem for the kkk !!!
The problem is the top end power!
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If response/spool is that important, I won't get much better than with the standard wheel.
If you have to replace it anyway, I'd try the Kinugawa as it is a drop in replacement (no need to reprofile that silly comp housing).
These wheels are balanced which is an important feature. It might be slightly better at higher pressures with that extended tip, the fact that it is billet won't change performance, it's only more burstproof.

@Nutron: do you think a bigger inducer wheel spools slower, or is it only the surge that is holding you back.

147 JTDm 16v - GTB2060v - 329 hp/578 Nm
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a bigger wheel is heavyer, more intertia..
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Just to clarify that dyno I posted earlier was with factory gtb2056, factory intercooler but moved to front (shuffle the deck) factory complete catalytic converter in place, F1 map with dpf/egr delete 26psi boost std with that map. My point being how the initial torque climbed with the water/meth and how this may help the op's quest for spool up.

Any way, yes totally agree that any variation to the stock comp wheel will most likely be so small in improvement that it will be basically un-measurable as the stock setup spools very well for that size already.

So I think it depends on just how keen the op is the improve spool...at all cost? how about anti-lag?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AG3uEEEDy0s
hmm may be not for a daily driver hay Alerd

So what a bout the vklr as mentioned by "carisoigolf" but the 2056vklr...does that even exist? rare as rocking horse...but may be its possible to build one from the 2060vklr?? all questions I don't have answers too, but guaranteed to give the quick spool the op wants.
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One thing regarding spool or responsiveness.

Keep in mind you are on a dpf mapping. This slows down response quite a lot compared to the euro3 stuff on the 156.

On euro3 it's like: i need power, pres the pedal, fuel is injected, boost comes on, fly away
Dpf ecu: i need power, pres the pedal, a little fuel is injected, boost get's a tad higher, airmass measured....lean mix ensured, a little more fuel is injected, boost raises a little more, again airmass/mix checked.....

In other words the ecu map will try to maintain lean mix (like 18:1) even under acceleration ...... so the key question is : how can you speedup the gasflow in the turbine and away from it.

Heat wrap the stuff maybe?
Get bigger diameter exhaust after the turbo.
Closing egr will help spool too... (guess you already did that?)

Oh and have you had your intake cleaned?

Just my 2 cents.
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great brain storming Mr Black-Sheep, hay you could go wild with a hole 3" system from the turbo lagged and an exhaust cut valve for super low back pressure on tap...but who would do such a thing?

In all seriousness your dead right Black-sheep we don't know if Allerds keeping this engine stock or not, I guess I was just assuming he would be doing dpf/egr/map/exhaust/air filter...
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Actally allerd beeing allerd is not going to keep things too close to stock. (I suppose)... - i just wonder why the first thing is to change the compressor of the turbo if other things might as well do the trick.

I'm shure he'll enlighten us.

I didn't want to insult anyone.... btw what's the status on your car jbsmith?
Haven't read any fancy things about it for quite some time =)
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Originally Posted by Black-Sheep View Post
Actally allerd beeing allerd is not going to keep things too close to stock. (I suppose)... - i just wonder why the first thing is to change the compressor of the turbo if other things might as well do the trick.

I'm shure he'll enlighten us.

I didn't want to insult anyone.... btw what's the status on your car jbsmith?
Haven't read any fancy things about it for quite some time =)
F1 car status? Yes times stood still basically for 2yrs now since I thanked very body for there input and support of my thread and putting up with my crazy antics over those torturous 4yrs
I got to the 300hp/500lbs goal and was quite happy to stop. I still think pushing past that mark is just asking for trouble with the drive train but I'll let other's prove me wrong
So yeah just the exhaust cut valve is all thats been done just for fun really, does sound good though in the upper rpm with the 5 pot, almost Audi quatro isk.

Sorry Allerd - back to the topic
I have Just been reading about this vklr fitting, yeah I didn't realize how much work is involved in fitting one after reading Pete's thread, so yeah may be forget I said anything about that.
However I did notice Pete says in his thread that Adam can machine up "56" wheels in A2000 areospace aluminium to special order. May be they will be more lighter than "normal" billet and show better spool...don't know guess we did a full circle here lol.
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A bigger wheel does not have to have a slower spool or higher spool threshold but that is the tenancy because of their design, which, is why I have been getting my wheels bespoke made to order.

Increasing the inducer size will flow more air, will increase spool threshold because you are scooping more are at once and so need more force.

Increasing exducer size will improve flow by lowering the pressure the inducer has to work against and the larger the exducer to inducer ratio, the lower the spool threshold but the extra material will introduce more lag.

Tip high seems to be overlooked a lot and influences lag and spool threshold a lot but if the tip is too high you end up with surging.

Extended tips tend to act like extending the exducer with less added weight but you don't change the tip height from the base and therefore the exit area for the gas flow stays the same. The results that I have seen tend to be a slightly lower spool threshold but little or no difference above that point.

The overall height of the wheel will change the inducer axial flow section mainly and so the higher the wheel for the same other dimensions the more efficient it will be at higher gas flow levels (axial flow can move far more air than centrifugal but it is harder to get high compression levels).

That's what I'm seeing and understanding from what I've tried so far, that being:

GT1749MV (standard)
GT1752 (not sure on the spec of that wheel)
GT1756 (39.6,41.6,34.4 inducers, some with turbine trims of different quantities too)
GT1759
GT1858 (custom wheel I had made with only a 41mm inducer but runs over 250bhp at 31psi)

The last setup is what I'm on now but the compressor is too restrictive to push further, so I've just purchased a new batch of bespoke 60mm wheels with an inducer smaller than the normal 60mm wheels you can purchase but much bigger than what I'm running now. I expect it to have a similar spool threshold to what I have now due to a larger tip height.
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Check this dyno comparison from a Dutch guy with 2.0 TDI engine running a GTB2056vzk:
He tested the original 41.5/56 compressor (red line) but changed to a Kinugawa billet wheel with 39.6/56/59 spec (blue line).
This is the same wheel that fits our GTB2056v units.
As you can see he gained torque from 2000-2500 rpm, but also lost 10-15 hp at the top.
Below 2000 rpm, these wheels seem similair in performance, although the original 41.5 inducer surged and the 39.6 inducer not at all.

TDIClub Forums - View Single Post - Audi B7 avant 2.0TDI 16V
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Holly cow? That 4 pot did 475 nm at 2000rpm? My flywheel would jump out of it's housing....
This should spool realy fast on a 2.4 5pot i still think your lag is caused from a verry lean map - the delta has the same problem.... the turbo will deliver 1.5 bar boost at 1500rpm... still the ecu wont allow instand response (i had a verry rich tune a few months back wich changed that)
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very interesting reading all I'm interested in this topic too, but fear I'd probably go alittle wild with some compound setup if I was really keen for results.
I must say I find making boost from 2000rpm up is not a problem with any of my engine configurations I've had. Isn't this quest for early spool more effected by the exhaust housing A/R? Hence any alteration to the compressor spec to gain early spool is restricted by shaft speed of the exhaust turbine. Another question - 6+6 or 11 blade comp wheel?
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