Open 3.2 to 3.7 - Parts and is there headwork - Stage 1 - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 21 Old 17-02-15 Thread Starter
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Open 3.2 to 3.7 - Parts and is there headwork - Stage 1

Hi there,

I recently bought a GTV 3.7 (Dawie de Villiers did the rebuild) and it was supposedly just for the engine.

After driving it down to Wilderness from JHB, no way I am taking it out of that car. Fullstop.

I was looking for an engine because I have a GT 3.2 with a engine that needs to be repaired. The oil pump did not do its' job, so I need one connecting rod, bearings and the crank needs to be cut. To get the parts (Cambelt, waterpump, gasket set and so on included) will cost near enough to R 10 000.

Now, being a 3.7 convert I reckon the extra bucks might be worth it, but can somebody tell me what parts I would need for a 3.7 rebuild (Stage 1) and if I could use my current heads in unaltered form.

Any info will be greatly appreciated, I have done some research but I cannot get the detail to order the parts and get someone to do the rebuild without the exact detail.

Also, the remapping of the 3.7 for coastal use - anyone near George or Cape Town?

Or maybe there are some suggestions as to whom to send the 3.2 to for the rebuild?

BTW, I have a spare 2.5 24 valve V6 motor and gearbox if somebody needs it.
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Hello

as far as i,m aware the heads need work in welding up some water ways once you go 3.7.. but can be used otherwise..
and the 3.2 to 3.7 isnt really an easy conversion as they are no off the shelf parts..

liners are custom and so are the pistons.. it can be done but it isnt easy of cheap..

Cant you get Dawie de Villiers to do you another. Plus to be honest you will still need most of the other costs included in the other conversion..
will need to regrind crank machine the block for bigger liners then pistons rings gaskets cambelt waterpump and so on..

I think Dawie machined the crank to 45mm mains and used bmw rods with another piston etc.. only way to get part numbers would be to ask or strip yours
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Hi Cobus, Welcome to AO.

Come introduce yourself to the SA crowd:
South Africa - Alfa Romeo Forum

As Maxiboy says - you will have to open your 3.7 engine to reverse engineer... Dawie will not let his secrets go that easily... At the end the fee you would pay him will not warrant your R&D effort (maybe serious school fees in the way of a broken "this" or a not properly done "that"). Just to purchase the liners, pistons, conrods will cost a bundle. Then talking about heads - the cams and lifters are fiddled with - what I am not sure, but for-a-fact non standard. Also the combustion chamber needs to be modified - the overlap (called squish) can only be that big before it becomes the detonation problem it is supposed to limit.

I am not saying don't do it - just be aware that it is really a lot of work... To make the 3.2 motor in the 159 / brera a 3.6 is MUCH easier as you buy all the engine kit from the Camaro and then it is small bits here and there - still expensive...

Last edited by Gertie; 18-02-15 at 08:26.
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Cobus, welcome! As Gertie says, pop into the SA lounge for an intro and to show us your cars.
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Thank you, I am thinking of going the supercharger route

Hi Guys,

Thank you for the replies and advice regarding the 3.7-story. My feeling now is that it is a mountain too high to climb, seeing that I have one of Dawie's motors already and that the GT can be brought up to my wife's driving limit with a chip and a supercharger, hahaha.

I love the GT, but it could do with a bit more and I am looking at doing a supercharger (Only 2 options) job on it. Rotrex seems to be the favourite...

Also, it is one thing getting the engines done, but the thought of upgrades to brakes, boxes, suspension and so on is too much for me. Also given that I only covered about 5000 kilometres last year, spread over 4 cars, and this year will be even less.

Especially thank you for the welcomes, really. I'll do the intro and photos later today.

If anyone has info on superchargers and ones for sale, joh, I'll appreciate it greatly.
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I can get a good secondhand Eaton M63, dumpvalve and intercooler - does anyone know if and how this would work on the 3.2 Alfa V6?
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Yes the M62 can flow enough for a 3.2, but have you seen how big the M62 is? You will have to loose your aircon to make space for it.

You have mentioned the Rotax - it is much more compact. The big difference is that the Eaton work from low RPM, right through, and the Rotax is a bit like a turbo - more efficient at high RPM.

:: ALFA ROMEO CLUB POLAND ::
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Hi Gertie,

Thanks, noted. Losing the aircon will take it off the table, pity.

It is actually a M63 that I can get, but I have no idea of the comparative size - I shall see what I can find out now, I have a few inquiries out at the moment.
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And that Rotrex, the C38, on the Polish site looks the business. And so do the figures!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CobusSA View Post
It is actually a M63 that I can get, but I have no idea of the comparative size - I shall see what I can find out now, I have a few inquiries out at the moment.
Do you have a picture of this? AFAIK Eaton has M45, M62, M90, M112 and M122
http://victorylibrary.com/supercharg...eaton-data.htm
No M63, No M65. They repackage the base M62 for say Mercedes, then people want to call it M65 but the throughput stays 62 Cubic Inch per SC Rev

I have this SC for my 2.0 GTV racer:
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...7&d=1385097233
That some calls this M65, but I am getting the idea it is actually a M45 - I have not tested yet
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Hi, here is an image of it, and it may be the reworked effort, like this:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/401449...7626925176416/

I spoke to Dave at Alpine, he reckons it involves more work fitting it than the Rotrex, needs a reworked manifold. But I can have than done, no problem.

Might be worth a test...
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That is the M62:

Zestaw naprawczy Eaton M62 Supercharger Kompresor Kompressor Mercedes Łódź Polesie • OLX.pl (dawniej Tablica.pl)

When it comes to SC manifold manufacturing is easier than they make it out to be... this is a bit rudimentary - but good start of thought:
http://club.corrado.free.fr/prepa/eaton/galerie14.jpg
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Thanks Gertie, much appreciated.

It is on its' way here, so I'll start checking around for okes that feel like a bit of a challenge, haha...
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(Post Link) post #14 of 21 Old 02-03-15 Thread Starter
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Eaton supercharger arrived

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertie View Post
Do you have a picture of this? AFAIK Eaton has M45, M62, M90, M112 and M122
Eaton supercharger data
No M63, No M65. They repackage the base M62 for say Mercedes, then people want to call it M65 but the throughput stays 62 Cubic Inch per SC Rev

I have this SC for my 2.0 GTV racer:
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...7&d=1385097233
That some calls this M65, but I am getting the idea it is actually a M45 - I have not tested yet
Hi Gertie, here are photos of the supercharger I got. I am still not sure whether they will be able to make it fit, the fun only starts now, haha..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Supercharger 1.jpg (165.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg Supercharger 2.jpg (137.9 KB, 19 views)
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The manifold currently on the SC seems a bit rough, but at least something to start from... you can angle the pipe coming out of the SC immediately, no need to exit straight. It will save space. See attached mockup using a cut 63mm 90deg elbow

The intercooler is too small. It is true a SC does not quite create the same temperatures Turbo's do, but by the compression effort alone, things warm up and needs to be cooled, again... a good start

BUT 1st take the manifold off the SC and try and find if there is space in front of the aircon pump at the bottom if you want it slightly hidden or proud above the front bank - a bit like this Alfa 75 installation:

75 Performance.

Last edited by Gertie; 02-08-17 at 05:29.
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Wow nice thread. I'm not sure but are you the guy who posted an ad on Gumtree looking for a SC for GT? Also...which 3.7 GTV did you buy?

I see you already went the SC route, but why didn't you consider going the popular turbo route?

Good luck and keep us updated.
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(Post Link) post #17 of 21 Old 04-03-15 Thread Starter
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Supercharger and which 3.7

Hi there,

Thanks Gertie and Guili, shot.

Noted Gertie, we are measuring it up and so on, so your advice is highly valued. I'll keep you posted.

Guili, this is how the 3.7 looked when I got it - Motor was done by Dawie de Villiers for the pre vious owner himself (George Zontos) - the first photo (Black rims) and this is what it looks like currently (2 nd photo), bit they screwed up the paint mix (Small ding, left front), so now it is going back tomorrow for a complete bumper-to-bumper job.

I originally bought the Gtv just for the 3.7 motor and to put it into my GT (3 rd photo), but after driving it down from JHB myself, I could not get myself to cannibalize it, so now I am keeping both and am just trying to juice up the GT with the supercharger.


And while I have you guys, haha, would you recommend fitting Unichip Q's or just mapping the original ECU?

And which OBD to get for own use?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Side view - flush.jpg (80.6 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg Left Front.jpg (81.5 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 20150107_083933.jpg (108.8 KB, 11 views)
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In SA on N/A cars I would suggest to go with Uni-Q.

OBD: the best is Multiecuscan - Diagnostics software for Italian cars
Cables to get are mentioned in there - here are links to a KKL and ELM cable:
http://www.zasttra.com/products/elm3...re-elm-327-usb
http://www.zasttra.com/products/vag-...a-lancia-romeo
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This looks like the diagnostic tool to go for, the Autocom OPD+.
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I only now saw your post Gertie, I'll check it out quickly, thanks.
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(Post Link) post #21 of 21 Old 05-03-15 Thread Starter
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Hi again, I am getting the tuning tool described here - Galletto 1260 ECU Chip Tuning : Car Diagnostic Tool, Car key programming, Mileage correction tool and map/tuning files from ECU remaps, articles, software & other! — ECU remaps, articles & other information. and Tuning files - Chip Tuning files | ZIPtuning.com.

It will work on the Alfas and my Audi 2.7 biturbo. The Audi was another car after SAC remapped it, but a local xpert' managed to do a rollback, ffs. I can get the file from SAC, so I do not have to take the car to Cape Twon if I have the tuning tool.

And the Autocom Plus is the replacement upgrade for the Pro, for diagnostics. Apparently there is no one device that can falsh an ECU, and do the diagnostics? Strange.
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