2.0 CF2 CatCams - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 68 Old 11-02-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877
2.0 CF2 CatCams

Anyone else here done this and care to share?

Just bought the cams today for fitting on 9th March.

The few reviews/internet posts I can find seemed to be v. good, which is what convinced me to go ahead....

I wont be having the car re-mapped immediately, id be particularly interested to hear peoples opinions on running the new cams with/without a remap...

Thanks!
euroboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,046
Garage
I ran standard map with C&B medium road cams for a year without problem.

There was more power at the top end but lower down it seemed unchanged.

I then had a map by Gus at Alfatune which unlocked alot more midrange power and a bit more torque lower down to the point where it would easily accelerate from 25mph in 5th gear.

I've stopped doing that though after I rounded off 5th gear and had to have a new gearbox
Laptop_Matt is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 68 Old 11-02-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laptop_Matt View Post

I've stopped doing that though after I rounded off 5th gear and had to have a new gearbox
LOL, thanks.

Any idea of what BHP it made with the cams, and then with cams + map?

The place where I am going (in NL) are a very experienced Alfa engine builder and suggest 165-170 with the cams, and then 175-180 with the map. Sound reasonable?
euroboy is offline  
Status: lightened fly wheel fitted
AO Member
 
yeroulfella's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 287
Quote:
Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
LOL, thanks.

Any idea of what BHP it made with the cams, and then with cams + map?

The place where I am going (in NL) are a very experienced Alfa engine builder and suggest 165-170 with the cams, and then 175-180 with the map. Sound reasonable?
Its hard to know but I think they might be a tad optimistic, if they have a dyno they can show you the before and after numbers. I had more or less the same situation as Laptop Matt, with C&B stage 1 cams I didn’t notice a big increase in power, but after a remap I could feel the difference , can’t remember the exact numbers but BHP was up by about 12 after the remap.

Last edited by yeroulfella; 17-02-15 at 05:28.
yeroulfella is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bulgaria
County: Sofia
Posts: 170
Autodelta use cb-cams for their kit. The figure the quote is 172hp with phase 1 cams and their chip to suit them.
pyle is offline  
Status: Always working
Identity Confirmed
Authorised Trader
 
Autolusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Bedfordshire
Posts: 7,033
I have Cat Cams in my GTA

Not tried them in a Twin Spark

Ned
Autolusso is offline  
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
They will not fit, Ned
yan.ko is offline  
Status: Always working
Identity Confirmed
Authorised Trader
 
Autolusso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Bedfordshire
Posts: 7,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by yan.ko View Post
They will not fit, Ned
Very good

Ned
Autolusso is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 68 Old 17-02-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877


I did think the quoted bhp seemed optimistic - most of the reviews seem to suggest the improvement in driveability is the real bonus....

The other factor that swayed it for me is that im paying €1100 for the cat-cams (installed) along with a full belt, waterpump and tensioner change.

At my local multi-marque garage it would be €6-700 just for a belt change, so using man maths im effectively getting the cat-cams (fitted) for €400. That seemed like an opportunity not to be missed! I do have to drive to the other end of the country to have the work done though - doh!

-1998 916 Spider 2.0TS Lusso-
H&S Corse stage 1.
CATCAMs stage 1 cams with Savali custom ECU remap.
305mm discs with 166 4-pot callipers.
Ragazzon exhaust mid section.
Biscione Racing 2x70mm rear section.
Polybush suspension.
17" Zender Siena wheels with 3mm rear spacers.
etc etc etc!
euroboy is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United Kingdom
County: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 3,982

Member car:

Alfa 156 Gta

Thing is Cams are odd in an engine rebuild..

quoted figures are so dependent on other specs and even do too intake exhaust spec really affecting the power produced
maxiboy wales is online now  
Status: pothole avoidance score - 9 out of 10
AO Silver Member
 
Laptop_Matt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Derbyshire
Posts: 3,046
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
LOL, thanks.

Any idea of what BHP it made with the cams, and then with cams + map?

The place where I am going (in NL) are a very experienced Alfa engine builder and suggest 165-170 with the cams, and then 175-180 with the map. Sound reasonable?
No Idea, as its never been rolling roaded. It does sound reasonable.

I know that OperationAlfa on here got a proven 186 bhp with a cam'd 2.0 and less mods than mine.

If you can find a lightweight crank pulley, these make the car rev up and feel alot faster especially below 3500rpm where the TS needs some improvement.
The original crank pulley is 1.5kg and mine is 700grams.
Laptop_Matt is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bulgaria
County: Sofia
Posts: 170
In my mind the main problem is the long diff. I can feel my car struggling when I pull forward from traffic light.
pyle is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
scottyf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 5,225

Member car:

Alfa 166

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laptop_Matt View Post
No Idea, as its never been rolling roaded. It does sound reasonable.

I know that OperationAlfa on here got a proven 186 bhp with a cam'd 2.0 and less mods than mine.

If you can find a lightweight crank pulley, these make the car rev up and feel alot faster especially below 3500rpm where the TS needs some improvement.
The original crank pulley is 1.5kg and mine is 700grams.

The lightweight crank pulleys are great. Got on on my ts 1.8. Easy to install and a mild improvement. Not like lightening the fly. But an easy plug and play job.
scottyf is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United Kingdom
County: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 3,982

Member car:

Alfa 156 Gta

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyf View Post
The lightweight crank pulleys are great. Got on on my ts 1.8. Easy to install and a mild improvement. Not like lightening the fly. But an easy plug and play job.
Wouldnt lightweight cam pulleys alone just end up un-balancing the engine unless done as a package
maxiboy wales is online now  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
scottyf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 5,225

Member car:

Alfa 166

Inline fours are naturally balanced. Well primary balanced. Not so much secondary.
So you can get away with it. V6 you can't though.

Get better mpg as the one on mine is underdrived smaller than the original.
scottyf is offline  
Status: Race cars in progress
AO Silver Member
 
Gertie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 5,992
Garage
Also the cams are in balance - the lobes are 120deg apart:

http://www.gazzellaracing.com/image.php?type=D&id=256
http://www.autodeltashop.com/images/en_184.jpg

Here the TS cams are 90 deg apart:
http://www.autodeltashop.com/images/en_206.jpg
Gertie is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 68 Old 06-03-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877
Dropped the car off today for the work.

2 hours drive there, 2 1/2 on the train to get home again. It had better be worth it!

Picking up on Thursday, will report back....
euroboy is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: United Kingdom
County: Carmarthenshire
Posts: 3,982

Member car:

Alfa 156 Gta

Quote:
Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
Dropped the car off today for the work.

2 hours drive there, 2 1/2 on the train to get home again. It had better be worth it!

Picking up on Thursday, will report back....

please do
maxiboy wales is online now  
(Post Link) post #19 of 68 Old 09-03-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877
Had the first phone call from the garage today.

Spark plugs are knackered, do you want new ones?

How much, says I?

€190...... excl. fitting!

Shopped around a bit and ordered a set of 8 from Alfisti.net (who I use quite a lot and are v. good and trusted) for

€115 delivered. Fitting is easy and will do myself.
euroboy is offline  
Status: Race cars in progress
AO Silver Member
 
Gertie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 5,992
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by euroboy View Post
115 delivered. Fitting is easy and will do myself.
Done-and-dusted
Gertie is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
scottyf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 5,225

Member car:

Alfa 166

How would they know they are shot?
As long as they are firing and not mis firing they are doing their job...

Unless the electrodes are shot or worn I doubt they were worn.
scottyf is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 68 Old 11-03-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyf View Post
How would they know they are shot?
As long as they are firing and not mis firing they are doing their job...

Unless the electrodes are shot or worn I doubt they were worn.
They said on the phone that the electrodes look 'aged'.... there is/was no mis-fire at all.

Itll be interesting to see the condition when I change them myself.
euroboy is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Bulgaria
County: Sofia
Posts: 170
Have you seen a rise in the fuel consumption after fitting the sport cams and the remap after that?
pyle is offline  
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
scottyf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: West Midlands
Posts: 5,225

Member car:

Alfa 166

Report back interested in knowing what the outcome is.

In any case id have it mapped for a higher octane fuel too.
scottyf is offline  
(Post Link) post #25 of 68 Old 13-03-15 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Silver Member
 
euroboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Netherlands
County: -
Posts: 2,877
I picked the car up yesterday. It was ready and waiting for me at the correct time, which is always a good sign!

I've only had chance to do about 80km in it, from H&S to Schiphol airport - but the differences are immediately obvious.

In gear pick up is hugely different - especially in 4th and 5th gear at motorway speeds. The flat spot at low revs is gone and its much more eager to 'go'.

There's a lot more induction noise and the exhaust is much, much more burbly (a good thing!)

There's still a little flatness or a dead spot in the acceleration around the point where the cam switches, and its also way easier to stall the bugger. It will infact occasionally cut out during low speed/revs maneuvering which is a little annoying, but common to most cammed engines.

H&S also offer a specific ECU remap for the cammed engine which addresses the two slightly negative points mentioned above, as well as adding about another 10bhp. Ill be having this done during the summer.... I want to drive it for a while without first so that I can appreciate the difference.

They fixed the oil leak (perished cam cover seal) as well as changing the water pump which was original to the car. They mentioned that the engine itself seemed in rude health and was very eager

Next job is to enjoy the drive home from Schiphol on Sunday, replace the spark plugs and then crack on with getting the big brakes on.

Total price incl. all parts, VAT and labour for the following work:

Stage 1 CAT CAMS
Cambelt and tensioner change
Balance belt change
Water pump
Cam cover gasket replacement

1130 euro.

Bargain!
euroboy is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
catcams , cf2

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome