GTV 2.0L TS to 2.0L 20Valve turbo - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 23 Old 03-11-14 Thread Starter
Status: 2.0L Twinspark soon to be 20Valve turbo
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GTV 2.0L TS to 2.0L 20Valve turbo

Hi Guys.

I have had my GTV 2.0l twin spark for about 5 years now and have been toying with the idea of making it faster, but before anyone says go and buy a V6. i dont want a V6 i want a unique car and something different. so i have come up with the idea of putting a fiat coupe 20 valve turbo engine into the GTV. i know it can be done and have seen video's on youtube of it. so i bought a coupe this weekend and an about to embark on this project car.
i was wondering if anyone out there has done this or people that have done projects like this with there cars as im after guidance from you guys on how you got around the issues you came across, for example: Keys and immobilisers, Engine ECU's, power steering pipes and other stuff like this.
other than that i thought i would share my experiance of the project on here so others would know what could and couldnt be done. hope you all enjoy!
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alfa romeo GTV 2.0 TS
CDA induction kit with custom built silicon induction pipes - full alfaholics exhaust - down pipe - sports cat - centre box - raggazzon rear twin DTM straight through rear section - red painted brake calipers - braided brake lines - EBC red stuff pads all round - EBC turbo disc's all round - front strut brace - powder coated rear arms and spring pans with powerflex bushes - TTV racing lightweight flywheel.
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Friend of mine has been working on 20v big turbo GTV with standalone aftermarket ECU. I have no much more details to share, but it's all pretty straightforward.

20V turbo GTV.JPG

Last edited by yan.ko; 04-11-14 at 08:17.
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As Yan.ko says - stand alone ECU to handle engine would be needed as the 20V is 5 Cyl and the 2.0TS is 4Cyl.

I am pretty sure you'd be able to keep most of the GTV's steering, shocks etc.

Here is a build thread into a 145 - which is not too far from the GTV
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...iat-coupe.html
Follow the links to the different build threads inside
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(Post Link) post #4 of 23 Old 04-11-14 Thread Starter
Status: 2.0L Twinspark soon to be 20Valve turbo
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thanks for your comments so far guys, seems like no one over here in the uk has done this swap into a GTV, from what i read on the 145 it is running the standard ECU from the coupe and has just been chipped which is what i am hoping to do for the GTV. steering rack is the same and so is the subframe so hopefully the suspenstion ect should be to.
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fit the ecu, code box and ignition barrel from the coupe. this means using the coupe keys and engine wiring loom aswell.
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When the time comes speak to Leighton at FC Performance on all things Fiat Coupe (tuning, maintenance etc) as he is the man in the know on these cars.
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Go onto alfa 155 alfa155 knowledgebase for enthusiasts as there are several threads and owners who have done this conversion on the 155 which shares the same engine/gearbox setup of the GTV
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This is an interesting project! Will you be doing another thread on this subject (to keep everyone updated), or will this be your main thread?

How much power does the standard engine have? Will you be doing anything to modify the performance of the engine?
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(Post Link) post #9 of 23 Old 10-11-14 Thread Starter
Status: 2.0L Twinspark soon to be 20Valve turbo
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This will probably be the main tread, but if I start one in the project area I will link it into this one.
The standard engine is 220bhp and I have been talking to FC performance, and I am hoping to tune it up to about 350bhp. So it's going to be a ongoing project.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean0711 View Post
I am hoping to tune it up to about 350bhp. So it's going to be a ongoing project.
It's doable Fairly high boost needed : +/- 1.2bar boost
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Surely the 2.0 GTV front springs/shocks/brakes would be inadequate for such a heavy & potentially powerful engine? The V6 GTV has all these items uprated from the 2.0 engined cars. Also my experience of the 2.0 gearbox would indicate it is inadequate when driven hard.
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(Post Link) post #12 of 23 Old 10-11-14 Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Surely the 2.0 GTV front springs/shocks/brakes would be inadequate for such a heavy & potentially powerful engine? The V6 GTV has all these items uprated from the 2.0 engined cars. Also my experience of the 2.0 gearbox would indicate it is inadequate when driven hard.
Im hoping to swap over the suspension and brakes off the coupe onto the GTV, as they have the same subframe and mounting points on the body or possibly replace the suspension with Koni shocks and uprated springs.
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The engine is not that much heavier... Shocks should be fine, the brakes you can take off the 3.0 GTV.

The gearbox should be OK for around 250hp if you do not launch all the time or flat foot in 5th gear all the time. You can strengthen the gearbox as the 155 Q4 guys do to limit the casing pushing oval and slipping gears.
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(Post Link) post #14 of 23 Old 11-11-14 Thread Starter
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The engine is not that much heavier... Shocks should be fine, the brakes you can take off the 3.0 GTV.

The gearbox should be OK for around 250hp if you do not launch all the time or flat foot in 5th gear all the time. You can strengthen the gearbox as the 155 Q4 guys do to limit the casing pushing oval and slipping gears.
i think the brakes on the coupe are the same as the 3.0l GTV. there brembo 4 pot's with 304mm disc's. the coupe 20VT gearbox has to be able to handle more power than 250hp thats only 30 more than the 220hp standard spec.
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One other thing is Fiat Coupe is 4 stud, not 5 stud as on GTV.

On the capabilities of the gearbox - That same gearbox (albeit different ratio's) is used all the way from the UNO Turbo, through the 1.6TS all the way to the 20VT, so yes 20VT type power is getting close to the top limit of the gearbox unless you start reinforcing is a bit if you want to push further...
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Wrong, the 20VT uses the c5.30 (5speed) or the c6.30 (6 speed) gearbox, the same as als the latest v6 and JTD Alfa's. The TS cars and for example the Uno Turbo uses the c5.10 box...
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Glad to be corrected, Still does not bode too well for 300HP aim:
http://www.marantmotortechniek.nl/ap...ptoverview.pdf
Page 28 - the C530 is rated for 305Nm (mentioned as 5/6speed) Agreed is more than 206Nm for C510 box
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The gearbox should be OK for around 250hp if you do not launch all the time or flat foot in 5th gear all the time.
You are describing my normal driving style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gertie View Post
Glad to be corrected, Still does not bode too well for 300HP aim:
http://www.marantmotortechniek.nl/ap...ptoverview.pdf
Page 28 - the C530 is rated for 305Nm (mentioned as 5/6speed) Agreed is more than 206Nm for C510 box
If it is correct that the TS/JTS uses this C510 gearbox, it is unsurprising that I have had gearbox problems, as the JTS is rated according to my Owner's Manual as producing 206Nm which is right on the limit! Add on the remap and the free flow exhaust plus take into account the ASR often braking one of the two drive wheels during heavy acceleration, then the gearbox is likely to give up!

Last edited by sensingsys; 12-11-14 at 15:04.
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(Post Link) post #19 of 23 Old 12-11-14 Thread Starter
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ok Ive been on the coupe forum and the boxes do fail but how long is a piece of string! some people on there have been running 350HP+ over 30,000 miles and not had any problems with there standard gearbox, some people have had to change them straight away and some have changed them after 10,000 miles. it all depends on the state the box is in to start with and the way its driven. so i will worry about the gearbox when or (being slightly more positive) if it does fail!

i have another question for you guys, do the earlier GTV's e.g. 97-98 have throttle cables or are they all "fly by wire"? my Y reg is "fly by wire" and the coupe (R reg) is cable so some adaption is going to need to happen, i just wondered if the earlier GTV's had cables to?
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Earlier GTV's did have cable throttles, yes.
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Quote:
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Glad to be corrected, Still does not bode too well for 300HP aim:
http://www.marantmotortechniek.nl/ap...ptoverview.pdf
Page 28 - the C530 is rated for 305Nm (mentioned as 5/6speed) Agreed is more than 206Nm for C510 box
I guess these numbers are on the very safe side because a standard 156 JTD16v already has 320 Nm. And if you look at JS JTD his 147 JTD with 272 Hp and more than 500 Nm and has no problems at all !

I have the same experience with the c5.10 box on my 145 Novitec Turbo. It had 290 Nm and still was going strong with 182.000 km on the klock...

The only way to break the box is to overstrain/abuse the diff. But alfa has a very nice upgrade for this, the Q2 diff and Quaiffe has a very nice diff for the c5.10 and c5.30 boxes too...
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Quote:
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i have another question for you guys, do the earlier GTV's e.g. 97-98 have throttle cables or are they all "fly by wire"? my Y reg is "fly by wire" and the coupe (R reg) is cable so some adaption is going to need to happen, i just wondered if the earlier GTV's had cables to?
On the GTV, pre '98 V6 were cable and pre 2001MY TS were cable.
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Looks like a good Project.

Apart from the sound quality, I would rate the 20V Turbo engine ahead of the Busso V6.

The standard Coupe Box is pretty strong, and the Diffs don't seem to fail like the ones in V6 GTV's.
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