SMF conversion for 2,4 10V JTD 5 cil. anybody? - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 32 Old 22-11-13 Thread Starter
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SMF conversion for 2,4 10V JTD 5 cil. anybody?

Has anybody done it?
Troublefree driving?
1,9 JTD 4 cylinders seems runs troublefree after SMF conversions.
What about 5 cylinders?

Last edited by freewind; 22-11-13 at 12:24.
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Had made one for my 2.4 10v but never got round to fitting it before crashing

Used a lightened (5kg) Twin Spark flywheel and a modified and strenghtened GTA clutch.

a 5 cylinder is less hard on it's clutch than a 4 cylinder is
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Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
Had made one for my 2.4 10v but never got round to fitting it before crashing

Used a lightened (5kg) Twin Spark flywheel and a modified and strenghtened GTA clutch.

a 5 cylinder is less hard on it's clutch than a 4 cylinder is
2.0 TS flywheel is straight fittable to old JTD?
Emm, I thought it's only 2.0 20V turbo one is the right candidate.
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a 5 cylinder is less hard on it's clutch than a 4 cylinder is[/QUOTE]

why is it so?

I thought 4 cylinder engine is more balanced on crankshaft work than 5 cyl. one.
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no a 4 cylinder has all 4 cilinders going through the dead center at the same time, when none are making power. on a 5 cylinder, only one cylinder at a time is going through a dead center and there's always another making power at that time.
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Quote:
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2.0 TS flywheel is straight fittable to old JTD?
Emm, I thought it's only 2.0 20V turbo one is the right candidate.
ts flywheel uses the same bolt pattern on the crank, yes, but there's no pull type clutch available that fits the flywheel. but a GTA clutch can be made to fit with very minor modifications to the pressure plate.

That was before I knew for sure the 20v turbo flywheel and clutch would fit...
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Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
ts flywheel uses the same bolt pattern on the crank, yes, but there's no pull type clutch available that fits the flywheel. but a GTA clutch can be made to fit with very minor modifications to the pressure plate.

That was before I knew for sure the 20v turbo flywheel and clutch would fit...
lets say I have original 20v turbo flywheel.
what mods and changes are on the list if I want to spin it instead off original DMF ?
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find a suitable clutch and fit it. nothing else needed
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I am running a 2.4 10v with a Fiat 20v turbo flywheel and GTA clutch,the only other thing I needed were shorter bolts to mount the flywheel to the crank.The dmf bolts are quite a bit longer,due to the extra depth on the dmf compared to the Fiat flywheel.
I have done about about 10,000 miles and had no trouble with clutch or flywheel.It is not as refined as the dmf,slightly more vibration if you use the wrong gear!The up side is slightly quicker acceleration,the smf is lighter . . . .
Autolusso,a well respected garage on here,have a 147 with a smf conversion as a courtesy car and report no problems,from what I have read on this forum.
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Originally Posted by Looneymoo View Post
I am running a 2.4 10v with a Fiat 20v turbo flywheel and GTA clutch,the only other thing I needed were shorter bolts to mount the flywheel to the crank.The dmf bolts are quite a bit longer,due to the extra depth on the dmf compared to the Fiat flywheel.
I have done about about 10,000 miles and had no trouble with clutch or flywheel.It is not as refined as the dmf,slightly more vibration if you use the wrong gear!The up side is slightly quicker acceleration,the smf is lighter . . . .
Autolusso,a well respected garage on here,have a 147 with a smf conversion as a courtesy car and report no problems,from what I have read on this forum.
Vibrations on wrong gear. What do you mean. Is it extra high or low rpm?
I've heard theory that smf's able to "eat" crankshafts bearings.
Next. Original dmf weights ~13 kilos, interesting how much kilos on 20v turbo one? The lighter is better on high torque diesel-
In terms of SMF that is not absorbal one..?
What about cluth press cylinder- is it suitable for the gasser 20v turbo flywheel and gta/turbo clutch combination?

And final. Do I have to balance/do lighter SMF for my JTD if I would plan to get ~200bhp. Or it is worry free straight fittable.
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straight fit.

the dmf weighs about 13 kilo but the clutch pressure plate also has to be taken into account.

You save about 2-3 kg by going from DMF to SMF, more if you lighten the flywheel (TS has an 8 kg flywheel but the clutch pressure plate is heavier than for DMF
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At low rpm(under 1000) there is more vibration, at higher rpm no problems at all.
My car revs quicker and accelerates faster especially in lower gears with the smf,maybe not much of a weight saving,but the weight is nearer to the middle of the crank so is easier for the engine to turn. . . . .a bit like an ice skater when they pull their arms in and spin faster?I am only guessing about that,but the engine does spin up faster!
I have heard of the theory about crankshafts breaking,but I have never actually seen one.Not saying it doesn't happen,but there are a lot of smf conversions(on different makes of car/van) about that have been trouble free for many many miles.
Clutch cylinders don't need changing,but the clutch bite may be slightly higher up because the smf/gta clutch combination doesn't stick out as far as the dmf/clutch does.
I don't think the flywheel will need lightening or balancing,but if it is not a new flywheel,it may be worth getting it 'refaced' just so the new clutch works on a new,flat surface.
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At low rpm(under 1000) there is more vibration, at higher rpm no problems at all.
My car revs quicker and accelerates faster especially in lower gears with the smf,maybe not much of a weight saving,but the weight is nearer to the middle of the crank so is easier for the engine to turn. . . . .a bit like an ice skater when they pull their arms in and spin faster?I am only guessing about that,but the engine does spin up faster!
I have heard of the theory about crankshafts breaking,but I have never actually seen one.Not saying it doesn't happen,but there are a lot of smf conversions(on different makes of car/van) about that have been trouble free for many many miles.
Clutch cylinders don't need changing,but the clutch bite may be slightly higher up because the smf/gta clutch combination doesn't stick out as far as the dmf/clutch does.
I don't think the flywheel will need lightening or balancing,but if it is not a new flywheel,it may be worth getting it 'refaced' just so the new clutch works on a new,flat surface.
But I've seen broken engines after remaps what was done by broken (gone) DMF's
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a broken dmf is FAR worse than a SMF... they act like a pull hammer if broken.

If you weld a DMF to make it an SMF you loose all dampening between the crankshaft and the gearbox. Not good either.

A proper SMF conversion moves the dampening to the friction plate which the GTA clutch does aswell.

If anything, the SMF is likely harder on the syncros in the gearbox, as the clutchplate is now heavier. However, the V6 engines use the same gearbox and clutchplate and have no issues
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There shouldn't be any issues with DMF to SMF conversion. Valeo makes such kits for many French, and Japanese cars. We have sold a lot of them, and they work great. The ones I remember from the top of my head, are for Xsara Picasso 2.0HDi, for Mazda 6 MK1 2.0Di (stock DMF is pricey as hell, costing around 1200€!), then Kia Sportage MK1 2.0CRDi, which has a factory flawed DMF, which doesn't last very long (and aftermarket replacements don't last any longer either), so everybody is going to a SMF Kit. And so on...
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I am now in position to change my clutch and have read about these flywheels while diagnosing the problem. How much work is it to machine a ts flywheel and make it fit? Or is it just a dumb solution when you know that the 20vt flywheel will fit?

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there's was in my case no machining required to the TS flywheel I had about. I did drill the centering holes on the GTA clutch cover bigger so they would go over the centering pins in the TS flywheel.
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I have an unused autodelta 156TS lightened flywheel in the garage that i want to use with a jtd gearbox and for that reason am very interested to know about the use of the GTA cluch. Appart from the drilling out, did everything line up? how many bolts held the cover plate? and did the slave cylinder need adjusting/alternative and did that effect the pedal bite position? Thanks
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If I used the GTV 3.0 clutch would that be better as it didn't have a DMF in the first place and position better in the bell-housing? less posibility for "the smf/gta clutch combination doesn't stick out as far as the dmf/clutch does"? Just a thought?
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the GTV 3.0 clutch is likely the same size as the GTA clutch, unsure about clamping force though. GTA never had a DMF either
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I wouldn't use a GTV clutch on a solid flywheel as a GTV doesn't have springs in the friction plate, it could be very juddery.
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looks like the best solution is the Gta clutch then drill out to suit and fiddle with the slave cylinder rod length. Any other alternatives to use the ts flywheel? thanks
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Try using the car before fiddling with the rod length,as mine is fine with the fiat 20vt flywheel and gta combo,the clutch bite is only slightly higher than stock. It doesn't feel like it is too high,as if it is on it's last legs and even with a tuning box,shows no sign of slipping. It feels nicely progressive,too.
It definitely has a lower bite point than the old dmf and clutch it replaced,which to be fair,was worn out!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goody2late View Post
looks like the best solution is the Gta clutch then drill out to suit and fiddle with the slave cylinder rod length. Any other alternatives to use the ts flywheel? thanks
no fiddling required, same depth for both clutch systems
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Are all TS flywheels the same? Or which one do I have to use (1.6, 1.8 2.0)? Used 20vT flywheels are hard to source.
So it seems easier to widen the center holes on a GTA clutch.
Has anyone done the conversion with TS flywheel?
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