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(Post Link) post #1 of 18 Old 18-11-13 Thread Starter
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Turbo Upgrade | Alfa Romeo 156 2.5 V6

Hi all,

Sorry for the new tread but I decided to go for a single turbo upgrade on my 2.5 v6 engine and I am trying to get together all data and information. In return I will post pics and document the full upgrade for the future.

Plan:
- TD04 charger from the Subaru Forester or Impreza (they are supposed to run at around 7psi with the stock wastegate)
- Some intercooler that fits onto the frame <-- not yet measured
- Stock ECU with a remap and GTA injectors

Costs:
- Turbo: 150EUR
- Intercooler: 50EUR
- Remap: 500EUR
- GTA injectors: 100EUR
- Plumping: DIY so just material

Since I will be running a single turbo low boost setup, the back exhaust manifold will have to get led to the front where it meets the front exhaust manifold. From my understanding there will have to be a manifold connector melted on to take the turbo plus of course the oil pipes to and from the turbo. So far so good...

Questions:
- I am still not getting the intake system completely. There is the intercooler which takes the compressed, hot air, cools it down and sends it towards the throttle. What I am struggling with is understanding how the whole intake system should look like when the turbo is mounted. There is still the original air intake with the MAF sensor plus the air coming from the intercooler. My guess is that the pipe from the intercooler and the pipe coming from the airfilter have to join each other after the MAF but before the throttle.

Can anyone help me visualize how the intake setup looks like with a turbo mounted?
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airbox -> MAF -> turbo -> intercooler -> throttle

look at any other turbocharged engine
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o.k thanks

Where would you make the wastegate join the exhaust pipe?
Is it required to use aluminium or steel pipes from the intercooler to the throttle or may I use "plastic" pipes? The air should be cold and the pressure is only 0.5 bar but I am not sure

Last edited by cciech; 18-11-13 at 21:57.
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suppose you want to use the external one? So somewhere on the way the manifold joins the turbine. Just be careful about proper orientation/position - BOV & WG | Turbobygarrett
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Let's say there is a little turbo that spins and delivers some pressure. The higher the engine revs the higher spins the turbo so it will continue to increase pressure until the spring on the internal wastegate causes the valve to open and the exhaust gases to bypass the turbo over the downpipe if I am correct :-)

The question is where to best make the downpipe join the exhaust system.

To be honest I have 0 experience with turbos but when I look at the basic setup with a low boost I think it can be done at reasonable costs. The whole engine is being reworked anyway so I can take my time and build everything nicely. Important is I don't wanna blow up my engine or have any botch work attached to it.
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The turbocharger you want to use is way WAY too small for your application, and your budget extremely unrealistic.
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What turbo charger would you recommend bearing in mind that I may not run more than 8psi at the absolute max (stock internals).

The price is realistic and I can copy paste the link to the sources into the thread at any time.
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Originally Posted by spresv View Post
The turbocharger you want to use is way WAY too small for your application, and your budget extremely unrealistic.
You should check where he is located, prices there are much more reasonable than in the Eurozone. I believe he would be using a site called Allegro. So I believe his price estimates are correct.
Seeing as you are taking your time with the process I'd suggest checking the condition of the clutch and possibly a brakes upgrade.
Not much help on the turbo side I'm afraid but I believe you will also need additional filters and oil pan. Not 100% sure on this
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(Post Link) post #9 of 18 Old 19-11-13 Thread Starter
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Hehe you are a 100% correct :-) Site is called allegro and the stuff is soooo cheap

Regarding clutch I thought about taking the flywheel and clutch directly from the GTA. EPER says the GTA flywheel is about 0.5kg lighter
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Hmm you could tray that regarding the flywheel.
Maybe a stupid idea but what about a solid clutch replacement? I mean removing the DMF or is that possible?
I get my parts from that website so I know exactly what amounts can be saved
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Only drawback is that it is only in Polish and I have to force my fiance to translate it all the time

The 2.5 has a "normal" flywheel that weights about 8.6kg and I have read somewhere that it is messy when doing the original flywheel with the GTA clutch, hence the thought with the GTA flywheel (0.5kg savings) and clutch which might be a bit stronger is a good idea.

I guess with the engine upgrade (intake, runners, gta cam) and the turbo I will get something like 280HP but I'd rather stay on the secure site and don't go too far. I saw the guy from SA getting nearly 300HP with the single turbo stock engine setup

Do you know what the ABS material pipe is called over here in Europe (maybe in Polish or German)? Plan is to run it from the turbo to the intercooler and from there to the throttle <-- that already saves me most of the plumping.

For the rest I guess I will have to visit couple car cemeteries with my flex and piece it together somehow. I don't have a bender or any advanced tools. Worst case scenario is filling each piece with sand, heat and bend it
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Only drawback is that it is only in Polish and I have to force my fiance to translate it all the time

The 2.5 has a "normal" flywheel that weights about 8.6kg and I have read somewhere that it is messy when doing the original flywheel with the GTA clutch, hence the thought with the GTA flywheel (0.5kg savings) and clutch which might be a bit stronger is a good idea.

I guess with the engine upgrade (intake, runners, gta cam) and the turbo I will get something like 280HP but I'd rather stay on the secure site and don't go too far. I saw the guy from SA getting nearly 300HP with the single turbo stock engine setup

Do you know what the ABS material pipe is called over here in Europe (maybe in Polish or German)? Plan is to run it from the turbo to the intercooler and from there to the throttle <-- that already saves me most of the plumping.

For the rest I guess I will have to visit couple car cemeteries with my flex and piece it together somehow. I don't have a bender or any advanced tools. Worst case scenario is filling each piece with sand, heat and bend it
Unfortunately I don't speak Polish very well (I know some words) as like you I get my wife to translate and German for me is non-existant.
By ABS material pipe, do you mean the actually ABS sender unit? or the ABS sensor connected to the wheels?
Like this I mean

CZUJNIK ABS MAZDA 323 S F 626 PREMACY TY
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hehehe :-)

I was first thinking of using aluminium for the whole intercooling piping and then thought about PVC plastic pipes. Unfortunately, the PVC wont last the temperatures from the turbo to the intercooler so I found on some US forums that a material called ABS can be used. It is supposed to be a lot more resistant to heat and pressure than normal PVC.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cciech View Post
What turbo charger would you recommend bearing in mind that I may not run more than 8psi at the absolute max (stock internals).

The price is realistic and I can copy paste the link to the sources into the thread at any time.
Same series td05 is a better starting point. The spool with the td04 would be amazing, but it will spool and hit max torque so low, it's gonna be dangerous to the engine and gearbox. Let alone that you'll most definitely choke it at the top of the rev range.

You can copy and paste whatever you want, i'm not doubting the prices you quoted for the parts, i'm certain it's gonna cost a lot more added to that. You haven't take into account exhaust, gaskets, oil/water supply/feed, intake plumbing and bends/reducers (adds up to a lot more than you think), gauges and a hell of a lot more. Take it from somebody who's done it already. Best of luck with your project.
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Thanks for your post. I appreciate any sort of input :-)

When looking at the "official" supercharger kit available for the V6 and how it is presented in the pics from the link below;
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...3511251&type=1

Why not putting the Mercedes Supercharger there where the aircon compressor is supposed to sit and mount it nicely maybe with a custom belt (will have to check if the standard one is strong enough or not). The Eaton Mercedes superchargers are maybe 300EUR plus I would save headache for the exhaust piping.

Anyone with experience? I thought first the supercharger runs over a "double" crank pulley with an additional belt. Mounting the mercedes charger to take the belt at exactly the same point as the aircon compressor should be doable
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Here are some pics of the Eaton 45 which was used in the later Mercedes models I think after 96 or 99 (the supercharger runs all the time so now supercharger clutch to be worried about). Need to check now if this is sufficient and for what sort of revs it is intended.

Obviously this one is a bit worn out but it illustrates what could be done. Price for a really good one is about 300Bucks straight
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(Post Link) post #17 of 18 Old 19-11-13 Thread Starter
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Here are the details for anyone interested.

Eaton 45
Recommended Engines: 2-3l
Max RPM: 14000
Displacement: 45cu ins/rev or 750cc
Pressure: 10 PSI (0.7 bar)

Performance map below
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File Type: jpg 5.jpg (59.0 KB, 28 views)
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(Post Link) post #18 of 18 Old 20-11-13 Thread Starter
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Hey all,

Is there anyone who could give me some hints on what programmable piggy back ecu module to use/buy with the pre-facelift 156?
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