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(Post Link) post #1 of 78 Old 06-11-13 Thread Starter
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Grande punto 1.9 16v gtb2260vk

Hello to everyone I open this topic with some pictures of my car and it's modification. Some pictures are from my old 8v engine but exhaust, intake and turbine are still the same.
ImageShack - jacktheripper2's Images
I put the album since there are really many. There is also the last dyno result with the 16v engine. That torque is reached since I had a REALLY low lambda value , now I lowered the torque for clutch slipping problem.
I started tuning the car since I bought it. Since about 8 months I didn't know anything about chip-tuning and now this is the result with my own chip-tuning..
And this is especially thanks to this forum and other people in Italy that helps me.
The story of my car is long and I try to be as fast as possible. As soon as I bought it (used with 60000km) I made exhaust, filter and chip tuning and reached 165hp and 370nm. After about six months I put my first bigger turbo that was a kit from an Italian guy (I discovered only later that was a gtb2056v). With 1.6/1.7 peak and 1.45 stable I made 190hp. After about 10.000km or little more the manifold were completely destroyed (this due to a bad 'building' from the mechanic that didn't put any bracket in the downpipe). I found so an used kit with custom manifolds and an old gt2256v. With 2 bar peak and stable after 3 months I fuse a piston (didn't know how was the other settings of the ecu). I replaced the piston, change all the piston rod and fitted new manifolds with gtb2056v but with pressure wg. I ran that 2 bar constant boost and made many and any autobahn session with that, and unfortunately in a track day in Monza the wg broke and the turbine too after a few acceleration.I didn't know how much boost it reached since my old pressure gauge after 2 bar turn off and on again. After that I decided to make the best change I could make, and so I fitted the 2260vk with new manifolds, new downpipe (downpipe for 2056 was 62mm while the new one is 76mm ), new intake and double cone filter. Also a new chip tuner made my ecu but car didn't run so well and made 3000mbar just at 3000rpm, so I went back to my old chip tuner and car started to go much better (but smoking). I tried this turbine also with 3500mbar till revs and I never had problem, also with 3800mbar peak. Of course that pressure is not safe because the max you can do is 3500mbar peak and 3000/3100bar at revs. After a while I decided to start learning chip tuning. I read my ecu and I saw that many maps were changes in all the table, like the injection time was changed with 2mm3 and 200bar . I started changing some settings with the help of another friends (but he also changed injection time and didn't inform the ecu like it must do), after a months with a lower setting the engine break. At this time the best things to do was replacing it with a 16v one..
I found an used engine with about 40-50 thousand km and mounted it with new manifold, new tube fin intercooler (the old one was plate&bar), 60mm intercooler pipes, renewed injector with 2,4 nozzle and renewed injector pump. Now after many and many test on the road I made 267hp and 550nm on the dyno, but I'm always trying new settings with few hp lost but with smoother curve and some torque lost for cluth slipping.
Hope to make this post in the right session and hope you enjoy my story.
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What I like the most on the story is, that you didn't give up Awesome result indeed.
Btw is it laser welding what we can see on the pictures (VNT actuator bracket especially)?
Btw2 it's always better to do some math prior to changes on ECU. Would save you at least an engine.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 78 Old 07-11-13 Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by yan.ko View Post
What I like the most on the story is, that you didn't give up Awesome result indeed.
Btw is it laser welding what we can see on the pictures (VNT actuator bracket especially)?
Btw2 it's always better to do some math prior to changes on ECU. Would save you at least an engine.
Mostly of the welding are TIG welding, included that one. I studied some math again, but especially I almost read all this forum and other forums the get as much information I could. I read also many and many articles and other things on the web about 'how the multi jet works' and how the combustion works. I'm just a student in a total different field and I've never done such studies before.. But after months and months of studies, I start to understand everything pretty well..
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Very nice result indeed!

Maybe you can put some youtube links from your car also in this topic.
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Very nice result indeed!

Maybe you can put some youtube links from your car also in this topic.
Ok here there are some of the last videos from youtube..

6th gear acceleration
20131027_203426.mp4 - YouTube

130-240 6th gear
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZHMe...FYBn3-2EnEAkwg

Rev limiter
Rev limiter 1.9 muet - YouTube

100-200 in 4th-5th gear
20130921_185424.mp4 - YouTube

0-180
20131001_175920.mp4 - YouTube

Dynorun and smoke test
Dynorun gp 1.9 - YouTube

100-200 5th gear
20130924_191204.mp4 - YouTube

All the videos where I go over the speed limit have been made in Autobahn or private street without speed limit. Almost all the videos have some different in the chip settings between them.
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Stunning ! Loving your work and would love to a link to this 100-200 video.

Don't suppose you guy does a exhaust manifold for the 2.4 159 ?
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Does the Grande Punto use the M32 gearbox?

Also, if you still have a good 8v exhaust manifold for a GTB that would be interesting...
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Stunning ! Loving your work and would love to a link to this 100-200 video.

Don't suppose you guy does a exhaust manifold for the 2.4 159 ?
I just make the chip tuning of the car and some little works like the intercooler pipes. I learned to weld with Tig and so i decided to make them but nothing more..
If you want I can ask to the person that did that if he can make it for 2.4.

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Does the Grande Punto use the M32 gearbox?
Yes it's M32. I keep the same flywheel and clutch of the 8v since it was a reinforced clutch and almost new flywheel. Both with 10.000 km.
The manifolds I still have for 8v is for gtb2260vk bmw.
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[QUOTE=jackteripper2;6836578]I just make the chip tuning of the car and some little works like the intercooler pipes. I learned to weld with Tig and so i decided to make them but nothing more..
If you want I can ask to the person that did that if he can make it for 2.4.

Yes I would be interested in a price from your supplier.
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Great result even after what sounds like an expensive learning curve
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Like .....!
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A massive amount of work gone in there, well done fella. Any indication of wheel power?
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(Post Link) post #14 of 78 Old 10-03-14 Thread Starter
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A massive amount of work gone in there, well done fella. Any indication of wheel power?
wheel hp are 232. Now am I am waiting to take the new nozzle aiming for 300 hp.
New nozzle should be able to provide 130mm3 in [email protected] bar. Now I'm wondering, does 130mm3 will make 300 hp?
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I've run 235whp with nos and methanol in the past, I doubt your pump can deliver enough fuel to get near 300bhp on its own.
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That's an awful lot of work but what a result! If I hadn't bought the Alfa, that definitely would have been one of my other choices!

Well done sir!
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(Post Link) post #17 of 78 Old 22-05-14 Thread Starter
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Just changed fuel pressure pump with new pumping inside from a 2.7 (don't ask me for code or other things since I don't know them, the work has been done by a Bosch center). Also changed injector with spec nozzle and modified body. Otherwise I can't setup the ecu map since the fuel pressure regulator goes out of duty cycle with 130mm3 (first test was with 145mm3 and rail pressure fell to 300 [email protected] from 1750 target ). Now I saw with Fes that already at 100mm3 fuel pressure start to drop to 1550 bar from 1700 target. Injectors give about 75mm3 with [email protected] bar, this with 2000rpm fuel pump, stock 243 were 55mm3 with that time/pressure. I lowered -20% ducati corse injection time but still do not have good cranking, some rattle in lower rpm with almost no boost, and still smoky. It also feels retarded since it is 'slow' to go up in rpm. I also lowered Pre injection since they are much more now with these injectors and it crank better but always got some problems.
Tonight I will put back my previuos +10% injectors and I will take these new ones in the bosch center and test them with 1000rpm fuel pump (as they are normally tested) to see the us with different iq/rail pressure.
Is it possible that it is only a problem with the pressure regulator? I had already tested my previous injectors with stock pump and 130mm3 but didn't get any error.
The pump has also been tested on the bench with 2000bar and it works fine.
Rail pressure start to drops already with 25% duty cycle of pressure regulator. Hope to solve everything soon.
The first day with old duration setup but stock SOI it made 3900mbar and it leaves black cloud in the street, so I think injectors are quite big
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The thing that really amazes me is the massive fuel amount you're injecting!
I'm running 105mm3 at the moment with reasonable smoke and EGT.

I tried 110mm3 and once 117mm3 but with that last tune the temperature and smoke are totally out of control even with Ducati injectors and 25deg/1050 usec [email protected] rpm.

Did you already move the EGT prope? I would like your know your temp, measured at the same location as mine.

Last edited by JS JTD; 23-05-14 at 17:33.
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The thing that really amazes me is the massive fuel amount you're injecting!
I'm running 105mm3 at the moment with reasonable smoke and EGT.

I tried 110mm3 and once 117mm3 but with that last tune the temperature and smoke are totally out of control even with Ducati injectors and 25deg/1050 usec [email protected] rpm.

Did you already move the EGT prope? I would like your know your temp, measured at the same location as mine.
Yes I replaced the probe and now it is in the 4-1 of the manifolds, I still didn't test it in very high speed but I can say that until 4th gear 5000rpm the Egt are almost the same, just a little bit more but I can't compare since i have different map. As soon as I will fix the injection time in the right way I will take another thermometer so that I will can see the real difference between the two different place of the probes. You have to consider that I do not have original manifolds but custom made with bigger 'tubes', and my turbo in much bigger in the exhaust. My downpipe start with 76mm and later it is 60mm, now I'm gonna replace the full exhaust with a full 70x1,5mm. I'm also running 2.3 boost and 2.1 stable boost, and with the new injection system I cannot make less than 2.5 bar till 4000 and 2.3 bar later. But just after 4000 I have error with rail pressure. The first day with old map but stock SOI (a map with [email protected] )and new Injection system I reached 2.9 bar boost and made lots of smoke (ending injection really late with stock Soi but it was just a test). I know some people running 3 bar with modified 2260vk, but I think that is really really too much.
Hope to solve my problems soon and I will let know something.
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Yes I replaced the probe and now it is in the 4-1 of the manifolds, I still didn't test it in very high speed but I can say that until 4th gear 5000rpm the Egt are almost the same, just a little bit more but I can't compare since i have different map. As soon as I will fix the injection time in the right way I will take another thermometer so that I will can see the real difference between the two different place of the probes. You have to consider that I do not have original manifolds but custom made with bigger 'tubes', and my turbo in much bigger in the exhaust. My downpipe start with 76mm and later it is 60mm, now I'm gonna replace the full exhaust with a full 70x1,5mm. I'm also running 2.3 boost and 2.1 stable boost, and with the new injection system I cannot make less than 2.5 bar till 4000 and 2.3 bar later. But just after 4000 I have error with rail pressure. The first day with old map but stock SOI (a map with [email protected] )and new Injection system I reached 2.9 bar boost and made lots of smoke (ending injection really late with stock Soi but it was just a test). I know some people running 3 bar with modified 2260vk, but I think that is really really too much.
Hope to solve my problems soon and I will let know something.
Hmm, EGT is surprising, but I'm curious about the new double measurement to see the difference.
What is your experience with increasing the downpipe diameter? Does it have a big impact on EGT? Mine is starting at 57x2 mm and ending 60x2. Then 63.5x1.5 for the rest of the exhaust.

Hope you solve the railpressure issue soon!
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Hmm, EGT is surprising, but I'm curious about the new double measurement to see the difference.
What is your experience with increasing the downpipe diameter? Does it have a big impact on EGT? Mine is starting at 57x2 mm and ending 60x2. Then 63.5x1.5 for the rest of the exhaust.

Hope you solve the railpressure issue soon!
Your downpipe is too little in my opinion, you should make it 63.5 like the other part of the exhaust. I can't compare other downpipe since before this I had the 8v and I also didn't have an egt probe before fitting the 2260vk in the 8v. However I think that the downpipe is the first part that shouldn't be little. It is just after the turbo and so it is the first part that 'stops' the exhaust gases.
My turbo is amazing already in the 'stock setup', from compressor map you can make 2.5 bar 3000-3800 rpm, 2.3 bar 4500rpm and 2 bar 5000 rpm and you are still inside the flow chart or just very little above it the last rpm.
Next week I think I will take the injector to the bench to get the perfect injection time.
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Your downpipe is too little in my opinion, you should make it 63.5 like the other part of the exhaust. I can't compare other downpipe since before this I had the 8v and I also didn't have an egt probe before fitting the 2260vk in the 8v. However I think that the downpipe is the first part that shouldn't be little. It is just after the turbo and so it is the first part that 'stops' the exhaust gases.
There are different opinions about this subject, but so far I haven't seen a test/comparison of different diameters.
I will try it, making a new downpipe in 63.5mm and present the results.

Quote:
My turbo is amazing already in the 'stock setup', from compressor map you can make 2.5 bar 3000-3800 rpm, 2.3 bar 4500rpm and 2 bar 5000 rpm and you are still inside the flow chart or just very little above it the last rpm.
Next week I think I will take the injector to the bench to get the perfect injection time.
I can believe that 60mm compressor is doing a fancy job, I'm also thinking about equipping mine with such a wheel. Ofcourse this will produce more air and thus higher safe IQ.

I would very much like to see a datalog of yours, you must have dosens of it.
One with your previous setting (308 injectors) with rpm,boost,vnt and IQ. Just to compare a little bit to mine. Can you post one?

147 JTDm 16v - GTB2060v - 329 hp/578 Nm
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There are different opinions about this subject, but so far I haven't seen a test/comparison of different diameters.
I will try it, making a new downpipe in 63.5mm and present the results.



I can believe that 60mm compressor is doing a fancy job, I'm also thinking about equipping mine with such a wheel. Ofcourse this will produce more air and thus higher safe IQ.

I would very much like to see a datalog of yours, you must have dosens of it.
One with your previous setting (308 injectors) with rpm,boost,vnt and IQ. Just to compare a little bit to mine. Can you post one?
I have problem with Fes and if I send log to someone they see it all in one line with many 00009 in front of the parameters. With actual 2.5 bar boost I have 1610mg till 4000rpm, that is a really good figure.
As soon as I have time I will write a data log from previous setting
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Originally Posted by jackteripper2 View Post
I have problem with Fes and if I send log to someone they see it all in one line with many 00009 in front of the parameters. With actual 2.5 bar boost I have 1610mg till 4000rpm, that is a really good figure.
As soon as I have time I will write a data log from previous setting
1610 airmass @ 4000 ?
That's nice!
I have 1500+ at that rpm with little over 3000 mbar (tune 9).

Yes, would love to see some data!
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I think with last setup 300hp are reached. Unfortunately now it is REALLY smoky, the airmass has fallen quite much with 26C outside temperature, I have 1540-1580mg 4000 rpm with 2.4-2.5 bar. Injection end tdc or almost tdc already, max Egt temperature is 910C in 5th gear at about 4800rpm (End of the video). Here there is a test in the street I always use for test.
Clutch slips a little bit at 4000rpm in 5th gear, 3th gear did not enter well. 10,5-11 for 100-200
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSCl...FYBn3-2EnEAkwg
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