Water2Air IC for Alfa 159 1.9jtdm. - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 14 Old 11-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
Water2Air IC for Alfa 159 1.9jtdm.

Hi,
as I try to read all the threads, I got great ideas for tuning the engine & car. For now, I have a remap, & clean egr with restrictor plate on. My purpose is fuel economy mostly, because I live in Turkey, and the diesel fuel is the most expensive one in the world. I ride mostly long runs, 72 km each day at least. I found the 3d drawing of the car now. I will cover the under of the car. I will delete the cat & DPF, And I need to make max torque start like 1400 rpm with a newer turbo, maybe two turbos like Saab because my Turbo is at its %80.

* First of all I need to know if I could replace the FMIC with A2W intercooler. It should decrease my IAT for better efficiency. I can make it perfectly in my garage. does it make difference.
* And I have a stolen idea from BMW, shape changing front grill. Grill will be closed for heating the engine quickly, after that it will open as needed.
* Also I know that M32 gearbox has limitations. What is it for real? You guys use 250HP jtdm 1.9 engines? how is it? what is the torque?
* As I wrote, I will delete EGR&CAT&DPF for better flow, and make a new exhaust pipe with two back silencer exits. But it will raise my max torque rpm to 3000 rpms etc? Can a custom remap lower the rpm?
* My friend suggest me to use Water/Methanol Kit for economy & power, I can also make progressive control of it. Is it ok to use at lower rpms like 2000&lower. What if I use only the water?
* As I restrict the EGR, Did I raise EGT? Water injection should keep it low I guess.

Those that I can remember for now. I will post as I remember.
emre2blue is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: [URL
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,758
Your probably looking at a torqy low down map to help with econemy,
Your mapper can probably tune it as is now for more torque than you need, im not sure but has 159 got an f40 gearbox not m32.
I like the idea of active grills i thought of similar in last winter as it takes forever to warm up with fmic coasting.
The water methanol or just water will cool air well, only usually injected with med to high boost so not sure how youd benefit low revs eco driving, not saying you wont just 99% of instals are for power and cooling at high boost and revs.
Heres a link to similar aim
water/methanol injection - TDIClub Forums
Air to water cooler also not many people convert, extra pipework and tanks/pumps etc .
Heres a link on subject(tdi forum)
Air to Water Intercooler sizing - TDIClub Forums
A nice fmic( or your std one) with a cheap water spray on front of cooler may cool air a bit if ambient is fairly hot?
You would probably gain more mpg, lowering car, and fitting eco tyres with low rolling resistance, and not using aircon.
Also heres a whole forum on mpg gains ,
http://forums.tdiclub.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Last edited by sussexa; 11-09-13 at 21:17.
sussexa is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 14 Old 12-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
I'm also registered to ecomodder forum. I learn how to make things but, this is Alfa, and if I make a difference it should be alfa's way I think :P
Now I will read the tdi forum.
UP!
emre2blue is offline  
(Post Link) post #4 of 14 Old 12-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
emre2blue is offline  
Status: 159 Cruiser and Guilietta pocket rocket
AO Silver Member
 
giblets46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: United Kingdom
County: Warwickshire
Posts: 4,734
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by sussexa View Post
Your probably looking at a torqy low down map to help with econemy,
Your mapper can probably tune it as is now for more torque than you need, im not sure but has 159 got an f40 gearbox not m32.
1.9 is the M32, 2.4 has the f40


[color=gray]Sent from AutoGuide.com Free App[/color]
giblets46 is offline  
Status: playing kill by numbers
AO Gold Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Belgium
County: Down in the Park
Posts: 8,786
2.0 has F40 aswell, until 2008 when it got C635 like Giulietta (all)
Cuore_Sportivo_155 is offline  
Status: [URL
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,758
I cant say ive seen any other users building air/water intercooler using that design
It looks more like OE use maybe, you would need to build a new inlet manifold to use as designed?
Always hard work being the only one to do it or the first one to do it.
Good luck which ever way you go.
sussexa is offline  
(Post Link) post #8 of 14 Old 14-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
thank you, I may make a new inlet manifold and what ever I want, that's why I don't afraid. I have CNC. But first off all I have to cover the under, than the grill & water. it will be a different project, because I'm also reading the TDI forums, they got insane about formulas etc. They change the thermostat 195Degree to 205 degree for fuel economy etc. So I'm getting parts now, I will inform the forum asap, but If you learn other things, please share with us. UP!
emre2blue is offline  
Status: Contra principia negantem non est disputandum
AO Silver Member
 
coxy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Toliman
County: Toliman
Posts: 2,045
JBSmith1 played about with a water spray and water to air intercooler. Then fitted a RS500 Intercooler as a few other of us have done with out standing results.

Just remember if you want to go down the water to air intercooler route just how much additional weight you will need to add just to make it efficient, the existing water system is far to hot to use and meaning you will need to run a completely different system. Weight is your worst enemy !

Again all of the above is based on a Brera / 159
coxy1 is offline  
Status: [URL
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,758
Maybe stick to egr, dpf and decat removal and ask for an ecomap then see if you need to alter intercooler, if you arnt using much power or boost you wont have much heat in your intercooler.
Fit undertray and pump tyres up to max allowed(load and speed)
And see how you go , all the other work may make 1mpg is it worth it to you.
Can you run biodiesel in that car?
Probably better off spending on kit to brew your own fuel.
Your talking of spending maybe a couple of grand on mods to save mpg you could pay for fuel for a couple of years with what you may spend?
sussexa is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 14 Old 14-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
Yep I saw the graphs for the MPG vs Total Money Spent. After 60 mpg it is not worthy to spend money for economy, because it will come back 4 or 6 years later. And I know that our Engine is not like TDI, in city it needs almost %50 more fuel to go, with out even AC on. My W2A intercooler thought is for this, Temperatura in my hometown goes -16 celc degree in winter easily, So I planned to use shape changing grill to make it warm faster, so I have to block the intercooler as well, I was afraid to do it so, I thought if I change to W2A intercooler maybe it wont affect the cooling of charge air. Also normal days, I would use much cooler inlet air for power & economy
emre2blue is offline  
(Post Link) post #12 of 14 Old 14-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
I also blocked the EGR 2 weeks ago, & cleaned the inlet. I found that my flaps was cancelled, but drive motor was in place. Those cleaning made almost 1lt/100km change on avg fuel consumption. But engine took longer to warm up now.
emre2blue is offline  
Status: [URL
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,758
Yep thats the downside of egr delete, i live with downside as short commute under 10miles each way.
But upsides cancel that out , im lucky if i get 45mpg but i usually enjoy my short journey a few times a week.
Have you thought of electric preheater for winter?
Also unless specifically mapped for econemy you may find a better intercooler could create more mass airflow and possibly use more fuel to keep afr as was ? (Not 100% sure what ecu would do)
sussexa is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 14 Old 15-09-13 Thread Starter
Status: Trying to Run
AO Member
 
emre2blue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Turkey
County: Istanbul
Posts: 561
Yes I'm gona make the heater, I saw it in an TDI ambulance 2 months ago :P
emre2blue is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
159 , 19jtdm , alfa , water2air

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome