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(Post Link) post #1 of 18 Old 12-10-12 Thread Starter
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What's BEST SOI in JTD 8v?

Hello guys
I'm setting my jtd8v with gtb2056.
Original SOI at full load, allow this EOI:


rpm EOI (degree after TDC)
200 1,44
600 5,83
850 5,91
1000 2,31
1300 5,05
1600 5,52
1900 7,37
2200 5,78
2500 4,84
2800 3,63
3200 3,23
3500 2,13
4000 1,36
4200 1,47
4500 1,61


-----------------
rpm soi
200 1,44
600 1,488
850 4,46
1000 6,93
1300 6,95
1600 6,95
1900 7,44
2200 8,93
2500 9,93
2800 12,90
3200 14,62
3500 16,86
4000 20,34
4200 21,32
4500 22,81
5000 20,83

Now with tuned file I am running with about 5° EOI after 2800 rpm....

In your opinion What is the best choice of EOI in JTD 8v?
The original? orwe can finish 5-6 ° after TDC?
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Original EOI id fine for those injection quantity. For best performance you have to adjust SOI a little more. For example I have the best power in 4000 rpm - 63mm3 = EOI zero, 90mm3 EOI 1 degree BTDC, 110mm3 3 degrees BTDC.
If you turn on W/M, you have to adjust even more. More humidity = adjust SOI.
But more boost = retard SOI.
More IAT = retard SOI
More cetane = retard SOI
And so on... According to my experiences, with more injection quantity, EOI goes sooner for best performance. With higher fuel amoun there is a nonsense to set later EOI than original (using the same fuel). Too late EOI increases EGT much, it os dangerous and smoking, too.
Best EOI setting you willget only with dyno, or with PCP sensor installed.
I made more than 10 measurements till I I have set the best SOI for 80mm3, 90mm3 and 95mm3. Now I have to solve the dyno cooling and end my W/M to be used. Than I wil make new dyno tests, I hope I will set 110mm3 SOI succesfully.

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Last edited by sarkan; 13-10-12 at 09:31.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 18 Old 13-10-12 Thread Starter
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I agree with everything you said!

my problem is to set the maximum SOI with long injection time.

For example, with 1.2 msec injection-time I need to set SOI:
*
24.2 ° @ 3800rpm
27.8 ° @ 4000rpm
29.2 @ 4300rpm

to have EOI at 1 ° ATDC.

I think it's dangerous to set this SOI, or not?

I think my injectors are smaller of your, for me with 110mm3 is impossible end before TDC, I have to set SOI over 30°!
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High PCP could lift the head, damage piston rod and bearings. Also the engine is noisier. If it makes you worried a less, I'm running max SOI 33° without an issue (I would know about so far ). Also keep your eye on coolant temperature, as with earlier SOI, more heat is being absorbed by cylinder head.
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Yes, I see that water temperature is slowest with earlier SOI!!!
With 4-5° EOI after TDC I oil and water temperatures rise immediately!!!

But 33° SOI scare me!!!

At the end, yan.co, in your opinion I can test this SOI

25.2 ° @ 3800rpm
28.8 ° @ 4000rpm
30.2 @ 4300rpm

with 1.2-1.25 msec injection time?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carisiogolf View Post
I agree with everything you said!

my problem is to set the maximum SOI with long injection time.

For example, with 1.2 msec injection-time I need to set SOI:
*
24.2 ° @ 3800rpm
27.8 ° @ 4000rpm
29.2 @ 4300rpm

to have EOI at 1 ° ATDC.

I think it's dangerous to set this SOI, or not?

I think my injectors are smaller of your, for me with 110mm3 is impossible end before TDC, I have to set SOI over 30°!
I think you should calculate SOI for 1 degree BTDC at 3800, so if it is 1,25ms duration, you should set it to 30,7 degree at 3800. Yan-ko has much shorter duration time, so he will use 33degrees with higher fuel amount. But I think, that 1250us is not 110mm3, but more than 115mm3, maybe 120mm3 with multijet injectors and 1500Bar.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarkan View Post
I think you should calculate SOI for 1 degree BTDC at 3800, so if it is 1,25ms duration, you should set it to 30,7 degree at 3800. Yan-ko has much shorter duration time, so he will use 33degrees with higher fuel amount. But I think, that 1250us is not 110mm3, but more than 115mm3, maybe 120mm3 with multijet injectors and 1500Bar.
Yes, I think about 120-125mm3 with 1.2-1.25 msec....

finally the best to try, with 1.2msec (about 115-120mm3) is set 1° before TDC and so

RPM SOI
[email protected] 19,6°
[email protected] 26,2°
[email protected] 28,3°
[email protected] 29,8°
[email protected] 31.9°

It's a human SOI that?

I have also about 2.1-2.2 bar boost, and for that I think that high SOI can damage the head of the piston....
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Originally Posted by carisiogolf View Post

finally the best to try, with 1.2msec (about 115-120mm3) is set 1° before TDC and so
I have also about 2.1-2.2 bar boost, and for that I think that high SOI can damage the head of the piston....
1 degree BTDC at 3800 I mean. I would try EOI: TDC at 3500, 1,5 ATDC at 3000, etc. In lower rpm it would be later. Try to calculate for original EOI for example and then advance some few % to be little sooner.
I use 3150mBar, too and I use more than 30 degrees, too. No problem.
Mate, without dyno, it is fast impossible to set SOI properly.
Now I made some tests with SOI and VGT again and I have 3000mBar in 1720rpm with 80mm3 and without smoke! (than my clutch was slipping) It takes time, but results are impressive.
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For best spooling I have tried to set EOI 8° ATDC between 1600 and 2200 rpm....but only in 4th and 5th gear I have 2 bar under 2000rpm...and I am smoking to spool so fast...

I test new SOI as you said....
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Originally Posted by carisiogolf View Post
For best spooling I have tried to set EOI 8° ATDC between 1600 and 2200 rpm....but only in 4th and 5th gear I have 2 bar under 2000rpm...and I am smoking to spool so fast...

I test new SOI as you said....
I tried other SOI because of smoking. It didnīt help. Problem is AFR. I use EOI about 8ATDC below 2000, too - no smoke. Try to set smoke limiter to AFR 16,1-16,2 below 2000. For best spool you need 100% VGT, but be carefull, set it to 100% only in needed values (try to measure IQ and according to it - choose correct IQ in x-axis of VGT limitation map). I definitely set it succesfully to 100% without overboost spikes. You can copy some PID values and maps from 159 210HP.
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Originally Posted by sarkan View Post
I tried other SOI because of smoking. It didnīt help. Problem is AFR. I use EOI about 8ATDC below 2000, too - no smoke. Try to set smoke limiter to AFR 16,1-16,2 below 2000. For best spool you need 100% VGT, but be carefull, set it to 100% only in needed values (try to measure IQ and according to it - choose correct IQ in x-axis of VGT limitation map). I definitely set it succesfully to 100% without overboost spikes. You can copy some PID values and maps from 159 210HP.
I have to test this!
Now I have setted AFR 13 in all rpm... Also my original AFR is setted 13.....

Last edited by carisiogolf; 16-10-12 at 20:45.
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Originally Posted by carisiogolf View Post
I have to test this!
Now I have setted AFR 13 in all rpm... Also my original AFR is setted 13.....
I am sure, that you are not right. MAF is in mg/hub, but IQ is in mm3.
But you are right, that some version use values below lambda=1.
I personaly donīt use AFR below 16:1.
And if you use duration increased - without x-axis change, your smoke limiter will note work.
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Originally Posted by sarkan View Post
I am sure, that you are not right. MAF is in mg/hub, but IQ is in mm3.
But you are right, that some version use values below lambda=1.
I personaly donīt use AFR below 16:1.
And if you use duration increased - without x-axis change, your smoke limiter will note work.
Yes you are right, my originale AFR is 15,7!
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I have tested about 26-27 degree soi at high rpm....to have EOI at 0° after TDC.... But car loses power, feels wall ....
it is not just me, because with SOI lower the clutch slips while increasing SOI clutch does not slip.

Possible?

I think that in order to obtain the maximum must increase the injectors to have a window of injection as short as possible ...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carisiogolf View Post
I have tested about 26-27 degree soi at high rpm....to have EOI at 0° after TDC.... But car loses power, feels wall ....
it is not just me, because with SOI lower the clutch slips while increasing SOI clutch does not slip.

Possible?

I think that in order to obtain the maximum must increase the injectors to have a window of injection as short as possible ...
Hi everybody, I tested many configurations of SOI, and over 19° @4000rpm, my car seems is breaking... I wonder of 33° used yan.ko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carisiogolf View Post
I have tested about 26-27 degree soi at high rpm....to have EOI at 0° after TDC.... But car loses power, feels wall ....
it is not just me, because with SOI lower the clutch slips while increasing SOI clutch does not slip.

Possible?

I think that in order to obtain the maximum must increase the injectors to have a window of injection as short as possible ...
If your clutch stops slipping, than SOI is too high. You have to tune SOI for your car, it is not possible to tune it by net. But if you have the best SOI below 25, it shows to excesive EGT...
Thats the reason, why your fire speed is much higher. Turn W/M on and tune again.

SandroMarciano - 19 degrees is less, than original. Yan-ko uses probably twice as much IQ (injection quantity) as you.
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Originally Posted by sarkan View Post
SandroMarciano - 19 degrees is less, than original. Yan-ko uses probably twice as much IQ (injection quantity) as you.
original angle is [email protected],
Actually i'm injecting 90mm^[email protected], but with postcombustion of 6-8°...
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Originally Posted by sarkan View Post
If your clutch stops slipping, than SOI is too high. You have to tune SOI for your car, it is not possible to tune it by net. But if you have the best SOI below 25, it shows to excesive EGT...
Thats the reason, why your fire speed is much higher. Turn W/M on and tune again.

I haven't W/M.....

But my EGT with 7-9° EOI - ATDC is about 850-900 degree at the end of 1Km from standing start...and 210Km/h exit speed from km (By speedometer).....
I think that' is rasonable....or not?
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