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Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

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(Post Link) post #1 of 33 Old 02-10-12 Thread Starter
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GT 1.9 JTDm full deCat/deDPF

It started - last week I made DPF and second cat replacement pipe as well as first cat downpipe replacement. Pictures show details of cats, DPF, replacement pipes, technical drawings and downpipe template. Normally, it is necessary first to delete DPF in EDC16c39 and EGR, btw...
First impressions in driving are positive: acceleration seems easier and boost peaks are about 100mbar greater than before.
Next step is FMIC...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20120828_101839 A.jpg (63.5 KB, 122 views)
File Type: jpg 20120915_085210.jpg (51.7 KB, 117 views)
File Type: jpg 20120921_104720 A.jpg (55.1 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg DPF Replacement Pipe.jpg (24.2 KB, 74 views)
File Type: jpg Downpipe - 55-75 Elbows A.jpg (16.5 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg Downpipe Template A.jpg (79.2 KB, 85 views)
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Hi Dusan, you took your time, but the result looks great. Hope you will continue modding your car.
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Nice work, did the same to my 147, but I did it the easy way and bought all the parts, does make the car a lot more responsive
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Looks great, I've done the same on my car. What are you planning with the rear silencer? Sport silencer or just a straight pipe?
I currently have a standard back box.

pozdrav!
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Thank you fellows...

You know yan.ko that your tuning results are motivating for me but I was very busy these months ago...

edraven71, because of postage expenses it was more appropriate if I make pipes. Other things (FMIC) I bought from js-tuning.

Pozdrav Daniel - for my former 147 1.9 JTD 8v I replaced factory rear silencer box with aftermarket free flow. But I think it isn't very needed for standard performance gain. And noise with free flow end box is little unacceptable (or my age is unacceptable ). Maybe standard back box is good enough in free flow sense?

I have questions about GTB2056 turbo and real advantages of this turbo in comparison with 170HP 1.9 JTD turbo which is fully replaceable with 150HP 1.9 JTD turbo. Is this 170HP GT1749v ready for comparable performance gain?
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Thank you fellows...

You know yan.ko that your tuning results are motivating for me but I was very busy these months ago...

edraven71, because of postage expenses it was more appropriate if I make pipes. Other things (FMIC) I bought from js-tuning.

Pozdrav Daniel - for my former 147 1.9 JTD 8v I replaced factory rear silencer box with aftermarket free flow. But I think it isn't very needed for standard performance gain. And noise with free flow end box is little unacceptable (or my age is unacceptable ). Maybe standard back box is good enough in free flow sense?

I have questions about GTB2056 turbo and real advantages of this turbo in comparison with 170HP 1.9 JTD turbo which is fully replaceable with 150HP 1.9 JTD turbo. Is this 170HP GT1749v ready for comparable performance gain?
Looking nice Dusan!
For the backbox, I have none at all but installed a silencer instead of the main cat (or in your case dpf). It's very easy, you have quite some space there and a simple universal silencer does the job.

The real advantage of the GTB2056 compared to the standard unit? Well, spool is about similair, so in normal daily traffic you will not really notice a difference until you really press the accelerator pedal.
No, really, it's a great turbo, imo much better than a hybrid in both performance and reliability.
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Thank you JoŽl - your tuning is encouraging for me also. Could you explain difference in numbers (power, torque) between performances achieved by use of GTB2056v vs. 170HP Ducati Corse turbo with same 1.9 JTDm 16v engine and with all other tuning measures performed?

Are differences in [Nm] and [HP] so evident and big, that complex redesign with GTB2056v is fully justified? Or torque curve is really better? I remember Squadra warning about JTDm power tuning limits because of lack of control of turbo GT1749v in high RPM situations...

Btw, I like to press accelerator pedal even in city drive conditions...

Last edited by dusanGT; 03-10-12 at 12:52.
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"Ducati corse" 170HP turbo is completely the same turbo as 150HP JTDm turbo.

It is factory remapped engine, they have managed to get more power out of the same engine because of higher flow capacity of the injectors... which enables to end injection earlier and that produces less EMP in higher RPMs. Giving more headroom for the turbo...
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"Ducati corse" 170HP turbo is completely the same turbo as 150HP JTDm turbo.

It is factory remapped engine, they have managed to get more power out of the same engine because of higher flow capacity of the injectors... which enables to end injection earlier and that produces less EMP in higher RPMs. Giving more headroom for the turbo...
ePer shows part number 55214063 fitting 1.9 16v CF4 150, 1.9 16v CF4 170 and also 'de-tuned' 136hp version.
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Pictures below show boost curves for 150HP and 170HP 1.9 JTDm 16v Alfas. You can see difference only in four upper curves.
According to some data, turbocompressors and injectors for 147 1.9 JTDm 16v variants, are following:
1.9 JTDM 16V 150HP - (Euro3, EDC16C8, CR Multijet 1400bar, Injector BOSCH 0445110111, turbo Garrett 760497-0001, NoSwirl)
1.9 JTDM 16V 150HP - (Euro4, EDC16C39, CR Multijet 1600bar, Injector BOSCH 0445110243, turbo Garrett 760497-0002, Swirl)
1.9 JTDM 16V 170HP - (Euro4, EDC16C39, CR Multijet 1600bar, Injector BOSCH 0445110341, turbo Garrett 777250-0001, Swirl)
But according to ePer 150HP and 170HP variants are with same injector (71794623) and turbo (55214063)...
What are opinions?
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File Type: jpg Boost 170HP.jpg (71.5 KB, 55 views)

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Injectors are different, turbo is the same.

As you can see form your turbo graphs everything is the same up to 50mm3...
It is just a tuned version of 150HP Euro 4 engine.

Like 150HP euro 3 is just a tuned version of 140HP enigine (btw, euro 3 engines are JTD multi-jet, not JTDm)...
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Quote:
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But according to ePer 150HP and 170HP variants are with same injector (71794623) and turbo (55214063)...
What are opinions?










... hope this helps.
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Thank you colleagues - it is clear now...

Could you asses a not-so-easy mod with GTB2056v in the sense of performance comparison with factory GT1749v with max remap abilities? Is it justified?

What are differences in [Nm] and [HP] between GTB2056v and GT1749v in final RPM and midrange RPM zone?

What is situation with 24/7 driveability in both cases?

And finally, what are opinions about Q2 retrofit for GT which is without Q2 in factory state?
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And finally, what are opinions about Q2 retrofit for GT which is without Q2 in factory state?
Good modification when the Q2 was cheap, but the Quaife ATB diff kit from Autolusso is cheaper than buying a Q2 diff kit these days. Alfa keep putting up the price..
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QDH6E - Quaife Engineering ..........................................=660₤
Q2 Differntial ........=580₤

What is about problems with cars which is originally without Q2? Actually, what is the ABS computer of Alfa with and without Q2?
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QDH6E - Quaife Engineering ..........................................=660₤
Q2 Differntial ........=580₤

What is about problems with cars which is originally without Q2? Actually, what is the ABS computer of Alfa with and without Q2?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alfa-Romeo...item4d05105380

£550 inc VAT, also includes pair of bearings, pair of driveshaft seals and pair of diff O-rings. We've sold over 100 units of the QDH6E diff in little over 6 months of being a Quaife retailer
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I see now - Quaife is cheaper and better solution...
But main question remains: what is about cars with ABS computer is factory adjusted for non-LSD state?
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I see now - Quaife is cheaper and better solution...
But main question remains: what is about cars with ABS computer is factory adjusted for non-LSD state?
We've not had any issues with that. With a Q2 or Quaife, it is far harder to lose traction when accelerating through a bend. So the traction control simply stays deactivated for longer. When it does activate, it still works fine. Or you can turn it off if you prefer.
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Could you asses a not-so-easy mod with GTB2056v in the sense of performance comparison with factory GT1749v with max remap abilities? Is it justified?

What are differences in [Nm] and [HP] between GTB2056v and GT1749v in final RPM and midrange RPM zone?

What is situation with 24/7 driveability in both cases?
Yes it's justified.
Look at this dyno sheet of my 147:
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/attac...v-js-226hp.jpg

I believe that this is at least 30 hp more than you can get out of the standard turbo with better reliability and less smoke. Others have even more, I think Sarkan is around 240 hp with GTB.
Torque, you can have much as the driveline can handle. I stopped at 430 Nm, but I believe close to 500 Nm is possible with the GTB.

For daily driving as I said, no downsides. My car accelerates smoothly from rpms as low as 1000 rpm.

147 JTDm 16v - GTB2060v - 329 hp/578 Nm
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I need such type of arguments (and numbers), cheers JoŽl!
Red curves on a diagram are for GTB2056v and blue for GT1749v?
I remember your comment about first impressions with Q2 - did you have any problems because your ABS comp is without factory LSD support? Or ABS comp is the same for Q2 and non-Q2 Alfas?
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I need such type of arguments (and numbers), cheers JoŽl!
Red curves on a diagram are for GTB2056v and blue for GT1749v?
I remember your comment about first impressions with Q2 - did you have any problems because your ABS comp is without factory LSD support? Or ABS comp is the same for Q2 and non-Q2 Alfas?
The blue line is also with the GTB turbo, only with a less aggresive map and standard intake and exhaust.

I have no issues with the Q2, it works great, but I believe its full potential is released only with the Q2 ASR/ABS computer. At very low speeds it works less effective now.
But still, I found the investment well worth it.
Large roundabouts are taken much faster than before, because it has a lot of extra traction.
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full potential is released only with the Q2 ASR/ABS computer
Or without ASR at all Q2 works like a hell. It REALLY change your cornering habits.

Last edited by yan.ko; 05-10-12 at 13:37.
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Summary:
a) if Alfa is equipped with non-Q2 ABS/ASR computer, limited solution is ASR off?
b) functionality of LSD (Q2 or Quaife) is only little jeopardized with non-Q2 ABS/ASR computer.
Question:
c) which is a possibility for replacement of non-Q2 ABS/ASR computer with corresponding Q2 ABS/ASR computer taken from Q2 Alfa?
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Dusane svaka cast

Guys I have few questions also.

I am planing to buy Alfa GT 1.9JTDm, so I saw someone commented that till some year they had JTD engines and after it they had mJET. Is there big difference between those engines, since I was planning to get a '05-06 model?
Also, I saw a guy modify his original turbo GT1749V with GTB2056V, is it better to swap complete turbo or just a part of it?
It is hard to find 170HP engines, so, can one just swap map in MCU and get that 170HP or is there more involved?
And final question, since I didn't find answer nowhere, how much torque and power can 6-speed gearbox in Alfa GT stand? What gearbox model is it? Since I was planing to get it up to 220-240hp... but I am sure that torque will go over 430+NM.

Best regards
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