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(Post Link) post #1 of 283 Old 07-09-12 Thread Starter
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stilo jtd 16v

decided its time to start my own thread.(i hope nobody minds)
last is first, this may be the end of build(for now)
rolling road results over the years(all on same rolling road)
first 2007
got a rolling road done soon after buying car as nasty habit of smoking on start up. so totally std car, 10,000 miles odd air temp15*c
2 std runs



next one was 2010 a few mods and dtuk tuning box, with w/m ,decatted, fmic, air temp24*c
run1 without w/m, run2 with w/m


2010 rolling road 005 - YouTube
2010 rolling road 004 - YouTube

last one today 2012, coming upto 45,000 miles, with w/m ,decatted, fmic, (diy remap),hybrid turbo, air temp 26*c
run 1 w/m on, run 2 without w/m


Jtd 16v w/m on - YouTube
Jtd 16v without w/m - YouTube

when i started the road of diy mapping i said id of been happy as long as i got more than the tuning box, i gotta say im more than happy with the result, even though the non w/m run 2 sounded like and looks on the graph to have been hitting a limiter between 2500-300 revs and overall hp figures seem obout right with what i was expecting but nm figures seem a bit lower as i thought id fuelled enough for 440nm peak (then again tuning box was low on torque also, maybe underlying problem hp pump or injectors)
i started the hybrid turbo project to see what was doable, i think 190whp is great!if i compare to std car had 133whp
i think these are consistantly some of the lowest rolling road losses ive seen on the net
im sure if i spent more time mapping and did more runs i could do better ive fairly gentle on map below 2000 revs.
i may do more but to be honest i really felt like it was going to self destruct on r/r.

Last edited by sussexa; 07-09-12 at 15:00.
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Nice results! Especially when all is DIY!

It does smoke quite a bit, you have an EGT gauge?

Do you have some more pics of the buildup, should be a nice addition to this topic.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 283 Old 07-09-12 Thread Starter
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Yeh i,ll go back and add relevant pics from start.
About as diy as i could get, without buying a tig welder and turbo balancing machine, id have loved to do it all.
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(Post Link) post #4 of 283 Old 09-09-12 Thread Starter
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ive had a quick look back through my maps and i cant see any stand out reasons for the dips with w/m off @2600revs and @3000revs in the mapping?, so as the power picks up a fair bit with the w/m on even more probable thats its a lack in fuel supply,as there seems to be plenty of air to burn the w/m up to about 4500revs-4700revs then appears to run out of air and id say thats where its smokiest from the video.
when weather cools down a bit i will do some road logs and see i can recreate those dips on the road.
but i dont think im bothered enough to re write map yet.
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(Post Link) post #5 of 283 Old 09-09-12 Thread Starter
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fmic(details in here, https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...-9-jtd-8v.html)
http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/8...instal3001.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/1...instal3010.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/7...instal4004.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/4...instal5001.jpg
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/5...instal3014.jpg
hybrid turbo (details in here, https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...e-options.html)
compressor wheel 49mm out 52mm in
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/962...ewcompress.jpg
turbine 37mm out 39.5mm in
http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/847...ewturbine0.jpg

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/3...adiusandpo.jpg
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/3...adiusandpo.jpg
http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/353...oredoutfor.jpg
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2...tripdown20.jpg
http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/5...eforehybri.jpg
http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/2...tripdown20.jpg
http://img809.imageshack.us/img809/9...ewcompress.jpg
http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/3...adiusandpo.jpg
16v manifold
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5...eforehybri.jpg
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/543...eforehybri.jpg
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/5...eforehybri.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/543...eforehybri.jpg

w/m installation bits
https://www.alcohol-injection.com/fo...tall-2085.html

smf, clutch etc, Q2 diff(details in here, https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...uestion-3.html)
dmf=approx11kg smf=approx8.2kg
http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/5132/s1030464.jpg
http://img512.imageshack.us/img512/3435/s1030465.jpg
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/2066/s1030466.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3813/s1030467.jpg

exhaust no pics just 2.5" fully decatted(mij walsall)

additional oil catch tank(after original oil separator)
http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/7...lcatchtank.jpg
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/438...tanksideon.jpg
http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/5...mar2011004.jpg
looks pretty bad but this was worst i have seen when first using w/m , now usually just see a bit of condensation in bottom(baffles removed as were rattling annoyingly)

suspension oe shocks +eibach -30mm springs

brakes grooved discs front+ebc red stuff, rear grooved+ebc green stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=7CAe4aDTdso
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_fwx80Dgak&feature=plcp

Last edited by sussexa; 09-09-12 at 13:50.
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now thats the difference between a generic tuning box and a custom remap, remap is always the best, that honestly is a great bhp figure. its something to be proud of

good luck in the future with the car!
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(Post Link) post #7 of 283 Old 09-09-12 Thread Starter
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tried to overlay all 3 rolling roads into 1 graph, im no computer wizard and bit of excel bit of paint
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/701...soverlayed.png

looking at this now ive have been too gentle below 2500 revs im under the boxed figures and under 2250 im actually under std figures, no wonder my mpg has improved lately comuting.

Last edited by sussexa; 09-09-12 at 21:47.
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(Post Link) post #8 of 283 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
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Looking at nm iq map 95mm3 is borderline below 3000 revs to get me over 400nm.
I'll try to create a torquier map upto 100mm3 below 3000 revs.
Pointless my smf,q2 and uprated clutch otherwise.
Will try upping rail pressure, 1730 now try 1750 or 1770 maybe.
And looking at peak hp, would like to bring back down nearer 4000.
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(Post Link) post #9 of 283 Old 16-09-12 Thread Starter
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just finished adjusting a few bits on my last map, increased a few limiters to 100mm3, increased nm below 2500 revs, increased injector duration at 100mm3(due to low nm from r/r)
just been out to do some testing/logging and had p0090 for pump pressure rgulator.
as it happens i was logging des fuel press, act fuel press and Pressure regulator opening (MPROP) as ive increased max rail pressure to 1775 and wanted to test it could supply around 95-100mm3
anyway seems to have triggered limp mode as it passed 30% (29.73%) or if not that it mayhave been backing off did not release pressure quick enough and has hit an upper limit(46.16%)


i dont think this is related to new map with higher pressure, as i had it on last map on way to rolling road and also used to get it on tuning box if turned too high and hot weather?not sure if related.
if i can find Pressure regulator opening (MPROP) maps would i be safe to adj to say 28% and 48% and test again?
has anyone else running farly high rail pressure had to adj this?
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(Post Link) post #10 of 283 Old 17-09-12 Thread Starter
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struggling to find anything on this pump pressure regulator precontrol map or limiter, found something that looks like it could be right sort of shape after the last rail limiter map i think ,but reluctant to alter map not knowing for sure.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sussexa View Post
... ,but reluctant to alter map not knowing for sure.
Don't be shy. No pain, no gain

Seriously, without this I wouldn't discover half of the maps. Do a safe change there and see logged values for changes.
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(Post Link) post #12 of 283 Old 18-09-12 Thread Starter
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o.k found something that looked a bit better around the rail limiters 1E6A4E

seems to follow values pretty well 31%-46% so ive changed 31 to 28 and logged again.
several times dropping into the 29.xx%, no limp mode so far

not sure why but ive got lots of zeros in my logs.
ill try to get a better log tommorow in the light.
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(Post Link) post #13 of 283 Old 23-09-12 Thread Starter
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going back through my map it looks like i left afr a bit rich at 15afr, re doing with 17afr for now
and start logging again.
regarding maf off switch from sarkan for jsjtd 1C29CC i have 0258 may try maf off and compare logs if software version is similar im software 377774.
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done some more logging in good light but soaking wet and very low atmos pressure 940mb so boost figures are not much good.
rail pressure and regulator seem to still be in good control?
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REVS=2369 IQ=100.88 MAF=1336.5 BOOST=2642 BOOST TEMP=18.96 looks low afr
mm3x0.84 = mg/i and then if i divide maf value in mg/i by IQ in mg/i =afr
100.88x0.84=84.7392mg/i 1336.5/84.7392=15.77 afr

now just gotta get my head around this ve calculation
VE = calculated airmass/MAF

calculated airmass = 60*(639,6*(460+ intake temp in F)*boost pressure in mBar * 2 /(engine volume in litres*7,559*61,02*rpm*14,7*453592)

Last edited by sussexa; 25-09-12 at 10:47.
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Rail pressure seems to be ok. It is MPROP fuel regulator logged in the last column, not DRV, right? Would like to see the DRV as it indicates the pump load.

VE is nothing else than ratio between how much air I would get and how much I actualy get. That equation above is probably good for excel calculations, but bad for memorization and neglects the humidity effect.

Yeah, AFR of 15,77 is a bit low and smoky (unless you have some special camshaft).
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(Post Link) post #16 of 283 Old 25-09-12 Thread Starter
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was still trying to perform calcs in edit as you posted

done some more logging in good light but soaking wet and very low atmos pressure 940mb so boost figures are not much good.
rail pressure and regulator seem to still be in good control?
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REVS=2369 IQ=100.88 MAF=1336.5 BOOST=2642 BOOST TEMP=18.96 looks low afr
mm3x0.84 = mg/i and then if i divide maf value in mg/i by IQ in mg/i =afr
100.88x0.84=84.7392mg/i 1336.5/84.7392=15.77 afr

now just gotta get my head around this ve calculation
VE = calculated airmass/MAF
(from sarkan)
calculated airmass = 60*(639,6*(460+ intake temp in F)*boost pressure in mBar * 2 /(engine volume in litres*7,559*61,02*rpm*14,7*453592)
(from yanko)
boost pressure [bar] * air density at given temp and humidity [mg/cm3]* cylinder displacement [cm3] / MAF reading [mg/i]

in not2fast calc i get air density at 0.068868lbs/ft3= 1.10315953095761mg/cm3
1.91L= 1910cm3
1.642bar*1.103*1910/1336.5 doesnt seem to work out anywhere near 80-95%
if i use 0.642 bar i get result of 101
if anyone could check my maths here,please

also yes its mprop % in last colum
fes doesnt show any figures in drv if i select it?
regarding the ve id like to try the maf switch off and directly compare logs to see if maf is accurate.
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Use absolute pressure value (2.642), one cylinder displacement (1910/4) and air density of 1.179.
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Oops, I messed the equation, it should be converse -
MAF reading [mg/i] / ( boost pressure [bar] * air density at given temp and humidity [mg/cm3]* cylinder displacement [cm3] )
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(Post Link) post #19 of 283 Old 25-09-12 Thread Starter
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2.642x 1.103159x477.5=1391
1336.5/1391=0.96 or 96%
if i use 1.179 for density
=1487
1336.5/1487=0.898 or 90%
i was at 943mb atmos or lower (as altitude was higher where i log)during log and pretty wet.
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b) is right - 1336.5/1487 ~90%. Atmospherical pressure doesn't play a role in this equation. Only the turbo was a bit more stressed to develop those 2642mbar out of 943mbar atmo.
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o.k im going to load another map fairly soon as ive increased iq at lower revs and its considerably dropped my mpg gone from near 50 to nearly 40 in 1/4 tank.
im going to just redo the smoke maps to 17-18afr and see what mpg is like, and leave iq and nm limiters where they are, im assuming smoke maps will still overide others?
will this still be the case with maf switch off? will smoke maps still be operational?
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yes, you can leave iq and nm limiters, smoke maps overide them. I'm not sure how it's in EDC16, but if the MAF value is calculated (with MAF off), then I think it's still used. There are rpm vs. airflow and rpm vs. boost smoke maps (at least in EDC15) btw.

It's good to zone smoke maps to areas like cruising, full throttle, take off-overtake acceleration and set up the AFR differently.
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(Post Link) post #23 of 283 Old 30-09-12 Thread Starter
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im pretty happy with the overall power and economy now time to polish the tune.
ive noticed hardly any difference lifting afr to 17-20 from 15 so thats where theyre stopping for now, ive revisited tuning the vnt maps and concluded that theres a factor of 1.22 in these maps.with this factor in place my readings in fes for vnt% are whats in maps(so 7500%fes=6144 in maps)
also ive noticed another boost leak similar to when i first fitted fmic, sounds like a baloon sqeek but it only seems to do it in first few minutes of driving 5-10psi range, once warmed up a bit i cannot recreate it playing with boost up n down?.
if not a boost leak could almost be a slipping belt or idler but ive not heard one for many years so ill stick to looking for boost leak for now especially as it happened directly after rolling road, bumper off i think.
checking back in some logs from yesterday/this morning im not seeing much over 2650mb instead of 2850mb and vnt is back up to about 38% to get that 2650 so ive lost 10%+in vnt
how big a leak am i looking for? ive already gone over all the clamps i can reach.
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(Post Link) post #24 of 283 Old 30-09-12 Thread Starter
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Looks like its the 90deg silicone bend from engine bay, intercooler end connects to a bend i had to cut on the bend to get angle.
For now have removed cleaned and re hair sprayed and then double clamped both ends.
Will make up an ally pipe with correct angles .
Wonder if it blew off during dyno due to extended period at full boost where normal use sees only a few seconds(bendy roads round here anyway, a few seconds is all i usually see over 20psi never mind 27psi)
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ive decided to go back and redo intercooler pipework and get rid of that silicone elbow and attempt diy weld on some ally pipes.
i bought some hts 2000 a few years ago and decided to give it a go, theres a nack to it and its really a solder but apears to be very strong, i tested a simple butt joint quickly and it took a fair few hard blows against the vice to eventually break.veed out the ends of real pipes to get a bigger joint.
time will tell if its sorted leak wont get to test till tommorow now.
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