GTV TB trackday project - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 18 Old 05-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

GTV TB trackday project

Ok, I's time to present my project to the english speaking part of the world

It's a -96 GTV TB that I'm modifying and tuning to perform better on the tracks here in Sweden. I've owned it since 2007, bought is relatively cheap (~€3000), no front seats, missing front spring, and lots of wear everywhere. Therefore a good base for a track day project!

Modifications so far:

Suspension:

Bilstein B6 dampers with Eibach springs, front springs are now replaced with 100Nm/mm springs.
Superflex bushes in the front
Rear spring pan has home made plastic bushings.
Rear rear arm has new rosé joints.

Weishers strut bar (steel)

Front brakes:
330x36mm AP racing disks and Willwood Superlite calipers (cast aluminum) with race pads (PFC 01 or Hawk Racing DTC70).
Rear: Std disks with Ferrodo DS 2500 pads

Engine:
Std engine with 200000km on it. Ok time to tune it
Q2-diff

Larger turbo from a Volvo T6 engine, twin scroll turbo, pumps 304hp in the Volvo.
Front mounted intercooler
Megasquirt III V3 EMS with Innovate lambda sensor.

1,5 bar of boost so far...

More info will come if you are interested
Attached Images
File Type: jpg väghållningssats.jpg (69.6 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg GTV ACEV.jpg (65.7 KB, 38 views)

Last edited by Iloper; 08-09-12 at 09:58.
Iloper is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #2 of 18 Old 05-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

Here is my latest movie, the boost pressure regulation is not working well when it is set to open loop. I'm running closed loop right now. Also the wheel speed sensor is not picked up correctly yet, I'm using the signal that comes out from the instrument cluster, but I think i need 5v pull up current to make it work.

Knutstorp Ring 2012

Don't forget to put it in HD!

The car in front of me is an Alfa 75 TS. Approx 300kg lighter than mine, and running with slicks (I'm running R-tyres). Beats my car at least...

Last edited by Iloper; 06-09-12 at 14:18.
Iloper is offline  
Status: Race cars in progress
AO Silver Member
 
Gertie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 5,993
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iloper View Post
Ok, I's time to present my project to the english speaking part of the world
Front brakes:
330x36mm AP racing disks and Willwood Superlite calipers (cast aluminum) with race pads (PFC 01 or Hawk Racing DTC70).
Rear: Std disks with Ferrodo DS 2500 pads

Larger turbo from a Volvo T6 engine, twin scroll turbo, pumps 304hp in the Volvo.
Front mounted intercooler
Megasquirt III V3 EMS with Innovate lambda sensor.

1,5 bar of boost so far...

More info will come if you are interested
Wow - Cool build - would like to see some photo's of the interior and engine bay...

I guess the twin scroll is a very good idea for a V6 engine Did you get both branches equal length to the turbo?

I am quite a fan of those Willwoods - extremely light and compact. 4 pot or 6 pot? Was it much effort to get them mounted?
Gertie is offline  
(Post Link) post #4 of 18 Old 06-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

I had to manufacture adapters for the brake calipers, and bells for he disks. This was quie straight forward, if you have access to a complete workshop with a CNC-mill...

I can't say that I am to impressed by these relatively old 4-pot calipers, I think that they flex to much, the pedal is never really stiff. The brakes have never failed me however, the are really good and can easily take 20 minutes beating on the track (unlike the cooling system...).

Previously I ran with 310mm Willwood disks, they where totally worn down after one season, the brake pads (PFC01) was also totally gone. The AP disks will probably last for three times that driving, together with PFC01 pads. I am right now running Hawk racing DTC70 pads. They are good when heated up, but I think that the initial bite is better for the PFC01 pads.

Here is also a pic of the rear springpan. All the bushings in the rear where totaly worn down and had to be changed. The green plastic is maybe a bit softer than a powerflex bushing. for the inner bushing I used a relatively hard black plastic. My plan was to keep the rear passive steering. However i belive that id would be better to change to the standard rose-joints. Will maybe fix that later on.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg broms.jpg (65.4 KB, 43 views)
File Type: jpg fjäderarm.jpg (55.5 KB, 30 views)
Iloper is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 18 Old 06-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

I rebuilded the Bilstein front dampers to adjustable coilovers. Originally the spring pan was sitting to low, at least together with the Eibach lowering springs. After the rebuild, I realized that the car had been running on the bumpstop for 4 years, making a loud BANG every time I crossed something rough on the street, or hitting a curb on the track...

The front suspension is now a lot better, roll is somewhat lower and the car is really smooth on the road compared from before. It is sitting a bit higher now to keep of the pump stops, it is also good for ground clearance. the B6 dampers are to soft for the 100Nm/mm springs. I plan to upgrade the dampers in the future, and to change springs in the rear.

I am also planning to fix adjustable camper plates, I have not found anyones that fit straight on the GTV yet.

I also have a 23mm ARB from a 155 v6 waiting to be mounted on the car.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fjaderben.jpg (43.0 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg fjadertalrik_bort.jpg (63.6 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg monterade.jpg (24.9 KB, 50 views)

Last edited by Iloper; 08-09-12 at 09:59.
Iloper is offline  
Status: Race cars in progress
AO Silver Member
 
Gertie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 5,993
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iloper View Post
I rebuilded the Bilstein front dampers to adjustable coilovers.
I am also planning to fix adjustable camper plates, I have not found anyones that fit straight on the GTV yet.

I also have a 23mm ARB from a 155 v6 waiting to be mounted on the car.
Coil-overs are the bomb Maybe a bit expensive, but good job on the rebuilt ones .

I put Eibach ARB in my 156 that is uprated from the normal 156 V6 - and I think they work nicely

To come back to the brake issue - those cross drilled super ventilated disks keep cool I am sure - have you ever played with ducting cooling air to the disks?
Gertie is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 18 Old 08-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

I tried some simple alu-tubing together with the standard brakes (with ferrodo DS2500 pads), but I never felt real confidence in those brakes.

Today I have not had any problems with brake temperature, without any cooling or ducting. I run the cheapest brake fluid, instead I change it every year.
Iloper is offline  
(Post Link) post #8 of 18 Old 08-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

Here is a pic of the interior.

I have added some switches to control boost and VE table switch, and possibly also launch control.

The airbags are gone, instead there is an oil pressure, oil temperature, volt and AFR meter. To the left of the steering wheel the is a boost pressure dial.

Driver seat is a Santler seat, similar so a Sparco Evo seat, fiberglass. Passenger seat is a Monaco Cobra, made of steel tubes, this seat is not comfortable at all due to its construction.

I need to lower the drivers seat, this is however only possible if the floor is modified. Maybe a winter project...

Another winterprojekt is to fit a rollcage. then it is definitely necessary to lower the floor, the helmet will hit the rollcage otherwise.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Forarplats.jpg (42.2 KB, 49 views)
Iloper is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 18 Old 08-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

Here is a bunch of pictures of the enginebay.

First is a pic from the front with the front mounted IC and air filter. I added some ducting to keep the radiator cooler, and to keep hot air away from the filter.

These modifications together with a more efficient turbo has lowered the intake temperature from 90 degrees C down to 45 degrees C. I'm very satisfied with that

The water radiator does not seem to be sufficient. It can only handle about 15 min on the track before the engine overheats.

Even worse is it for the oil cooler. After about 10 min on full trottle, the oil temperature rises to about 140 degrees C. Not good, a larger oil cooler is needed.

The std two cooling fans together with the sheet metal holder is exanget with a plasic fan. This gives a lot of extra space behind the radiator, and saves a lot of weight!

The downpipe had to be custom built, this one is made of stainles steel. The connection on the turbo is about 3.5", since the Catalyst sits ther on the Volvo. The rest of the system is only 2.25".

I custom made a bracket and intake manifolt for the turbo, similar to the original one. The front and rear cylinder banks are separated all the way to the turbine to take advantage of the twin scroll technology. The pipes are not equal length.

There is still some issues with exhaust leaks, mainly due to bent flanges on the original tubing. I would like to fit piping and headers from a 166 TB. they are not cast and made of stainless steel, they also look a lot lighter.

In the engine room there is a lot more space available now when the AFM i gone.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg avskarmning.jpg (48.9 KB, 70 views)
File Type: jpg biltema_flakt.jpg (57.2 KB, 53 views)
File Type: jpg downpipe1.jpg (63.9 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg downpipe2.jpg (55.7 KB, 75 views)
File Type: jpg grenrorssnutt.jpg (50.0 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg Motor.jpg (67.0 KB, 76 views)
Iloper is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,801
Good project!

How much were the AP racing rotors?
Pud237 is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 18 Old 09-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

I bought the rotors for €200, they where second hand but unused. I have a vague memory of checking the price for new ones with the same part number, it was something like €400. Each...
Iloper is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,801
400 each... Ouch...
Pud237 is offline  
Status: Race cars in progress
AO Silver Member
 
Gertie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 5,993
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iloper View Post
Here is a pic of the interior.
It looks very good, but - still have your radio in?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iloper View Post
Another winterprojekt is to fit a rollcage. then it is definitely necessary to lower the floor, the helmet will hit the rollcage otherwise.
The current roof lining has already been removed? That should add some headroom - 1/2 of the roll cage will take away. The only part of the roll-cage that will interfere it the cross member overhead, and with careful planning - you should be able to keep the area above you head clear - or look at oval piping there .

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iloper View Post
Here is a bunch of pictures of the enginebay.

First is a pic from the front with the front mounted IC and air filter. I added some ducting to keep the radiator cooler, and to keep hot air away from the filter.

These modifications together with a more efficient turbo has lowered the intake temperature from 90 degrees C down to 45 degrees C. I'm very satisfied with that

The water radiator does not seem to be sufficient. It can only handle about 15 min on the track before the engine overheats.

Even worse is it for the oil cooler. After about 10 min on full trottle, the oil temperature rises to about 140 degrees C. Not good, a larger oil cooler is needed.

The std two cooling fans together with the sheet metal holder is exanget with a plasic fan. This gives a lot of extra space behind the radiator, and saves a lot of weight!

The downpipe had to be custom built, this one is made of stainles steel. The connection on the turbo is about 3.5", since the Catalyst sits ther on the Volvo. The rest of the system is only 2.25".

I custom made a bracket and intake manifolt for the turbo, similar to the original one. The front and rear cylinder banks are separated all the way to the turbine to take advantage of the twin scroll technology. The pipes are not equal length.

There is still some issues with exhaust leaks, mainly due to bent flanges on the original tubing. I would like to fit piping and headers from a 166 TB. they are not cast and made of stainless steel, they also look a lot lighter.

In the engine room there is a lot more space available now when the AFM i gone.
It is very ingenious what you have done to get the turbo plumbing correct, but yes your water cooling is now suffering - the dual fans are needed to get proper airflow through the whole length of the radiator - you are now only sucking air through 1/2 of your radiator length - making it nearly 1/2 efficient. That and the Turbo piping behind the fans restricts the escaping of the hot radiator air... But the biggest part I would say is get another fan so the whole length of the radiator gets forced airflow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iloper View Post
I bought the rotors for €200, they where second hand but unused. I have a vague memory of checking the price for new ones with the same part number, it was something like €400. Each...
Yes it might be expensive, but it pays back in the sense that it does not overhead and destroy pads or fluids. Another racing guy here admitted after his "expensive" brake conversion - he has been saving money...
Gertie is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 18 Old 23-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

A quick uppdate aftera long time.

Engine is now replaced with a 2,5l 155 12v v6 engine. Larger injectors and E85, otherwise same setup as before. Right now I am suffering with some tuning issues and missfire on low RPM:s and low load. Need to chnage sparkplugs and get rid of some exhaust leaks from the flanges before the turbo.

I would like to get my hands on a set of 166 v6 TB exhaust manifolds. Does anyone know where I can find a complete set?
Iloper is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Italy
County: Roma
Posts: 83
What kind of tuning issues do you have on this 2.5?
Il Busso is offline  
(Post Link) post #16 of 18 Old 29-08-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

Quote:
Originally Posted by Il Busso View Post
What kind of tuning issues do you have on this 2.5?
Ok, problem is fixed, it was embarasingly easy... I am currently running Bosch Super 4, with 4 electrodes. Because they are similar to original Golden lodge. No other resaon basicly. One of the electrodes was bent and almost in contact bith the centre electrode. No wonder it was missfiring... Now it runs as smooth as before.

I had the cylinder heads off during the spring and had them resurfaced. Last year when i put in the engine and added the turbo on it, it would overhead and coolant would dissapear out thru the coolant cap due to overpressure. It was most likely the head gasket that was done, it didn't look ok.

Valves where also reground. However there must have been a cambelt issue, since there is an odd valve in this engine, and big dents in two pistonts... I guess that is what you get when you more or less gets the engine for free...

I have ordered new plugs, but it is NGK Iridium IX BKR8EIX, internet says that iridium is not good when running E85, therefor I am not sure if I should use them or not. However they have 19mm socket instead of 21mm, at least making them possible to remove without taking ov the valvecovers. My 21mm socket does not fit in the plugholes.

What is the the genral knowledge about sparkplugs and E85 on this forum?

I am also wondering what dwell settings I shoud have for the 155 v6 wasted spark coils. I am currently running 6ms.
Iloper is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Italy
County: Roma
Posts: 83
Why your 21 mm socket does not fit in the plugholes? Where does your 2.5 engine come from?

Anyway I don't know how the iridium reacts with the E85, we haven't in Italy, but here there's a lot of E85 users.

About the 155 V6 coilpack: it needs 3.5 ms of dwell, and gets saturated at 4.5, so anything above 4 ms is useless, you only shorten its life and overheat it with 6 ms. I saw this with an oscilloscope and the same coil on my Gtv 3.0, because I had ignition issues above 400 hp.
Il Busso is offline  
(Post Link) post #18 of 18 Old 01-09-16 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Sweden
County: -
Posts: 38

Member car:

Alfa GTV TB -96

Thank you for the information, I will change my settings for the coilpack.

My 21mm socket barely fits in the plug hole, maybe the walls are to thick on the socket, or it is the gasket and mismatch in the casting between cylinderhead and valve cover.
Iloper is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
gtv , project , trackday

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome