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(Post Link) post #1 of 15 Old 14-08-12 Thread Starter
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Chip Ph2 GTV

Hi this is my first post. I recently had to say good bye after 12 years to my 96 GTV 2.0 lusso Ph1. Slight argument with the curb and Hammersmith roundabout in the wet with tons of understear. I loved that car and it was like losing a family member.

With the insurance money I looked for a newer model (2002) to overcome my bearevment and after much hunting I found a great Ph2 eight year younger. I soon realised that I had no where near the performance of my Ph1 sob sob.

After much research I found that Alfa had to detune the ph2 to get it through euro emissions test. I would like to know how and if it's possible to get my old ph1 performance in my new Ph 2.

Also recommendations on which chip to use and any implications bar the insurance issue of doing this.

Thanks
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Phase 1 uses CF1 engine, 150bhp.

Phase 2 uses either CF2 engine 155bhp or CF3 engine 150bhp.

If you feel it is lacking compared to your CF1 its likely that there is something wrong with it, as it should be roughly the same. The CF1 engines do feel a lot free-er revving but 0-60 etc is about the same across all the 2.0 engines.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 15 Old 16-08-12 Thread Starter
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The engine is fine and top end etc very good do not worried about the engine but everything seems to have been turned down and it has less urgency in all gears than the Ph1. I looked at the GTV wiki and it says the phase2 was turned down to get through euro emissions.

What I would really like to know us how I go about turning the rev ranges up again via chipping or any other means as I would very much want my old performance back.
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Wikipedia is wrong, the CF2 engine (155bhp) had more power than the CF1 (150bhp) thanks mostly to the variable length inlet tract and a newer ECU. Its the CF3 that was tuned down (back down to 150bhp), due to the additional cats etc. But your old CF1 and your new CF3 both have 150bhp, so thats not the explanation of why the new one feels less urgent than the old one.

You're right though, I've driven loads of GTVs and Alfas in general fitted with Twin Spark engines and some of them are brilliant and some of them are poor in comparison, it comes down to a lot of different things really.

Autolusso Penrith - UK's leading independent Alfa Romeo specialist with branches in Bedfordshire, Cumbria & Dorset

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Last edited by Pud237; 17-08-12 at 09:54.
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Unfortunately that’s true.
The one feel like it will outrun a 2.5 and the next performs like a 1.6.
And even when you open the motor there’s no explanation for it.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 15 Old 17-08-12 Thread Starter
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Thanks guys - what a shame ! How can I tell if I have a CF 2 or CF3. Also is there any thing I can do to improve my performance. The pull away is practically pedestrian in comparison to my PH1 ( I am slightly exaggerating ) but Pudd you were right my old GTV was much revier and this one sounds totally different in the mid ranges.

In fact it sounds like a completely different engine. What can I do ?
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You most likely have a CF3 - it has an electronic throttlebody rather than a cable operated one so that tends to mute things a bit. A remap can help but what really strangles the mid and top end of your car is the lack of a decent exhaust manifold & front section. You have a 4 into 2 manifold which is far far shorter than optimum and then bolted to that you have two cats. You can remove all this and go back to the CF2 manifold (it's a good bit longer) and front section without cats (less restrictive), it's a fair bit of work but totally do-able, you will notice a nice improvement, and a remap will finish things off nicely.

However you should start with the basics first and ensure that the car is already running optimally. Correct spark plugs fitted & in good condition, air filter is not dirty, MAF and lambda sensor operating correctly, throttlebody flexi pipe is not split, exhaust is in good condition, engine is serviced, no errors are present in the ECU, tyres are pumped up, etc etc. slightly more difficult to check is to ensure the cams are timed correctly. You need cam locks to do this but it's worth checking your timing belt cover to see if it has little tippex marks on it - if it has it's likely had a cambelt change by a non-specialist without the correct tools and will not be set up quite right.
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(Post Link) post #8 of 15 Old 18-08-12 Thread Starter
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Wow you know your stuff thanks. How can I check if I have a cf2 or 3 is there a serial number some where or any identifying features ?
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When you open the driver's door, does the window glass drop down half an inch?
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(Post Link) post #10 of 15 Old 18-08-12 Thread Starter
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Yes the window does drop sometimes .Just digested what you have said and it's def a CF3. From what I understand best thing to do is get a CF 2 manifold and front section without Cats. Will this then fit to the rest of the pipe ?

If I decated will that be easier or to I really need the longer manifold.
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Pud is right, the Phase 2 did have slightly more power and in fact have better torque too si should feel faster. If the Phase 2 you looked at seemed slower than your phase 1 then there must be something wrong with it.
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Originally Posted by Stanch1234 View Post
Yes the window does drop sometimes .Just digested what you have said and it's def a CF3.From what I understand best thing to do is get a CF 2 manifold and front section without Cats. Will this then fit to the rest of the pipe ?

If I decated will that be easier or to I really need the longer manifold.
The best thing to do is to go through everything in the list in the 2nd paragraph of my large post above, I know its all boring stuff but you'd be amazed what a difference it makes to the running of the engine having all the basic stuff sorted first. It amazes me how many people bring in performance parts for us to fit and when we get started, we find there is already stuff wrong with the car which means it isn't running optimally anyway, like rocker cover gaskets leaking oil into the spark plug wells, dirty air filters, not enough oil in the engine, crap mis-matched tyres, tippex all over the cam pullies & covers.. Once it is running in tip-top standard condition, then is the time to start improving things.

A CF2 manifold and front pipe will bolt up to the engine but they're not a straight fit, you will need to get an exhaust fabricator or a very good welder to modify the rear half of the front pipe to join your existing secondary cat and also add in two lambda bosses just under the flange on the CF2 manifold so that your primary lambda sensors can screw in there. Plus you'll also need to extend the wires so they'll reach. Its important the lambda sensors are a good distance away from the collectors so they read properly.

Where abouts in the country are you by the way?
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(Post Link) post #13 of 15 Old 18-08-12 Thread Starter
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Thanks for all your good advice. I've learned more about GTV's in the past few day than ever before. I will certainly try your items in the se ond paragraph first. I'm not desperate to add expensive bits if these prelim checks work out.

Just simply can't figure why Alfa would take something great and turn it into something not do great. My family is Italian and they have a phrase "solo in Italia" which means only in Italy. I know you have to love Alfa for being Alfa

Pud you are a star thanks for your Jedi like Alfa intellect! I live in Southampton FYI. Thanks Stanch1234

Last edited by Stanch1234; 19-08-12 at 08:25.
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I know what you mean, it does puzzle me why they have done certain things, however I think more and more it was just a case of adapting what they had to meet ever more stringent emissions requirements.

If you want an experienced eye to look over your GTV that isn't a million miles away, pop in to see Loz here:

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(Post Link) post #15 of 15 Old 19-08-12 Thread Starter
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Brill thanks - I may very well do that
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