water/methanol 1.9 8V mjtd - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 13 Old 20-07-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spain
County: Barcelona
Posts: 117
water/methanol 1.9 8V mjtd

Hi!

I installed a cool is better kit, running at 50/50% mixture, 208cc/min nozzle. The EGT without w/m up to 1850F (220km/h), with w/m "only" 1600F, IAT temperature only up to +2/3 ºC to initial temperature at the moment of login, without +20ºC. The car feels more strong, I hope +12/15 hp but the problem is the car smokes more!!!! why????

Logs: ON, OFF ( the injection duratión time for 80mm3 at the log is calculated for real 120mm3)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Meth OFF.pdf (91.4 KB, 23 views)
File Type: pdf Meth ON.pdf (87.2 KB, 16 views)
Vic_O_O is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: Suck , Squeeze , Bang , Smoke!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Allerd's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 1723
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Netherlands
County: Drenthe
Posts: 770
Your nozzle is probably to big, John gave me a wrong one to.
I installed a smaller one from aquamist, I believe a .6mm one.
Aquamist nozzles have a much better spray pattern.
Allerd is offline  
Status: [URL
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,758
50/50 is too much meth? Can you try 20-25% methanol your already adding enough fuel with remap , even less meth may cool enough you could even try just water with 120mg?
Also for younger gen 1850*f=1010*c and 1600*f = 871*c
Looks like you egt says still a lot of fuel.

Last edited by sussexa; 21-07-12 at 06:51.
sussexa is offline  
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_O_O View Post
but the problem is the car smokes more!!!! why????
Because you added a lot of fuel and air only a little. So if you were running limit AFR of 17 before WM added, you are far in the smoke AFR now.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
208cc/m nozzle = 26mm3/i @4000rpm btw

which means 1:4 ratio @100mm3/i of diesel

Last edited by yan.ko; 21-07-12 at 09:30.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Methanol stoichiometric ratio is about 6.5:1 btw2
yan.ko is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Laster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Spain
County: Girona
Posts: 92

Member car:

fiat stilo

and uograding maf?
Laster is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_O_O View Post
Hi!

I installed a cool is better kit, running at 50/50% mixture, 208cc/min nozzle. The EGT without w/m up to 1850F (220km/h), with w/m "only" 1600F, IAT temperature only up to +2/3 ºC to initial temperature at the moment of login, without +20ºC. The car feels more strong, I hope +12/15 hp but the problem is the car smokes more!!!! why????

Logs: ON, OFF ( the injection duratión time for 80mm3 at the log is calculated for real 120mm3)
If you want to run 50:50 meth mix you will have to adjust your ECU again. You cant run 17:1 AFR in ECU if you add so much meth. Meth needs air to burn (less than diesel, but anyway). By adding so much meth you have in fact lowered your AFR to 15:1 or even lower in mid range RPMs.
I suggest you to try and do some tests with 10-20% meth mix...
TribesMan is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 13 Old 23-07-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spain
County: Barcelona
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerd View Post
Your nozzle is probably to big, John gave me a wrong one to.
I installed a smaller one from aquamist, I believe a .6mm one.
Aquamist nozzles have a much better spray pattern.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sussexa View Post
50/50 is too much meth? Can you try 20-25% methanol your already adding enough fuel with remap , even less meth may cool enough you could even try just water with 120mg?
Also for younger gen 1850*f=1010*c and 1600*f = 871*c
Looks like you egt says still a lot of fuel.
Only water? Ok!
Quote:
Originally Posted by yan.ko View Post
Because you added a lot of fuel and air only a little. So if you were running limit AFR of 17 before WM added, you are far in the smoke AFR now.
Ok! Thanks! Can 272ºcamshaft by colombo& bariani help me to add enought air? Estimated flow air gain?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TribesMan View Post
If you want to run 50:50 meth mix you will have to adjust your ECU again. You cant run 17:1 AFR in ECU if you add so much meth. Meth needs air to burn (less than diesel, but anyway). By adding so much meth you have in fact lowered your AFR to 15:1 or even lower in mid range RPMs.
I suggest you to try and do some tests with 10-20% meth mix...


The car runs very strong, videos ON OFF at the same road :

W/M OFF 14ºC ambient temperature:

Grande punto 1.9 mjtd Stage3 60-190 km/h - YouTube

W/M ON 23º ambient temperature:

Grande punto 60-200 & water methanol injectión. - YouTube
Vic_O_O is offline  
(Post Link) post #10 of 13 Old 03-08-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spain
County: Barcelona
Posts: 117
Today I'm going to test a map with more injectión advancing timing and more boost . What is the reasonable and safety advancing time on jtd without w/m ? and with? Thanks!
Vic_O_O is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 13 Old 07-08-12 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spain
County: Barcelona
Posts: 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_O_O View Post
Today I'm going to test a map with more injectión advancing timing and more boost . What is the reasonable and safety advancing time on jtd without w/m ? and with? Thanks!
wtf! The car is more slow!!! Before 100-200 15 sec, now 16 sec with more timing and boost . Definetly more advancing injectión timing (5 degrees vs 3 degrees ) is not good


Currently data log:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 120alcorteconmet.pdf (89.5 KB, 18 views)
Vic_O_O is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Show us how your SOI map looks like......
TribesMan is offline  
Status: [URL
AO Silver Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Wrexham
Posts: 1,758
quote
"the injection duratión time for 80mm3 at the log is calculated for real 120mm3"
so at 2000 revs your injecting nearly 120mm3 for 2100mbar why so much fuel at low boost?whats your mpg like?
soi advance has probably reduced inj after tdc and stollen some energy to spool turbo, or possibly too early soi is increasing pcp and losing efficiency ?
where have you increased soi 5 degrees?sounds a lot, is this on top of mapped soi changes? or from original.
as said by tribesman please show soi figures.
sussexa is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
mjtd , water or methanol

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My 147 boot hatch says it's open even with new switch? Software? Alf_the_Alfa Alfa 147, 156 & GT 2 26-03-11 23:15

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome