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(Post Link) post #1 of 11 Old 04-07-12 Thread Starter
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jtd egr delete-imersion heater?

hi quite a few guys running egr deletes, anyone contemplated using water feed and return to the egr cooler to make an electrical heated emersion heater/ heating element to heat the engine coolant up.
im guessing it could be on a relay to come on for first couple of minutes to put some quick heat into the system and either be on thermostat or just timed on then off?
i think in cold climates they have some sort of heater that does something similar?
im not sure what type of egr cooler we have is it a jacket around a pipe or the type with multiple smaller tubes in a jacket.
what say you?
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There is coolant heater with set of three plugs available from the factory already (optionally). Controlled by ECU.


EDIT: yes, this one ...

heater.JPG

#60657138 - heater
#156022582 - controll unit
#11129885, 11130088 - relays

Chmm, it seems to be available only on prefacelifted 156 models, interesting ....

Last edited by yan.ko; 27-09-14 at 10:43.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 11 Old 07-07-12 Thread Starter
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Thanks for that info, found something similar on ebay for bmw 3l diesel looks like a complete unit.I'm guessing from looking at pipe size its more for cabin heater line to give warm air earlier.
The heater plugs are available seperately might look at making something up, need to check thermostat circuit first to see if the egr cooler is in a good line to pre heat and order a couple of plugs to test heat output.
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I'm currently looking at removing the EGR cooler from my 2.4 JTD 10v CF3, I also want to use a different thermostat as the 2.4 one costs a fortune, Twinspark CF1 or Twinspark CF2 looks like they could be made to fit, or maybe Coupe 20VT but I haven't got one here to look at.

I made a drawing of the complete coolant system, its not going to be quite straight forward just to take the EGR cooler out of the system as the thermostat feeds water into the EGR cooler and this then leaves to flow towards the engine oil cooler. I'm not sure if the 16v is the same but my recommendation to you is to draw a diagram of your complete cooling system and then mark up what is happening with coolant flow in both thermostat conditions (fully open & fully closed), then you'll probably have the best idea of what you need to connect to where to remove the EGR cooler, and possibly add in a coolant pre-heater.

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You can easily delete EGR coolant circuit if you replace also oil water exchanger with the air oil cooler as seen on latest 16V (V6 and 20V probably also). Whole branch can be completely deleted then from thermostat upto engine coolant inlet pipe.

I'm currently working on completely new cooling circuit with electroniic water pump, controller and no thermostat at all.

cooling.JPG

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Good idea yan.ko
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(Post Link) post #7 of 11 Old 14-07-12 Thread Starter
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some progress,
bought a laguna 2.2dci pre heater, looked a nice compact design with 4 heater plugs.(edit, bit of a clean revealed 300w on the plugs so I need to control 1200w )
wanted to make some measurements and calculations before i made up a control circuit.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...roject002.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images...roject001.jpg/

did a test on a 6a battery charger to see what they really pulled and listed at the bottom shows current already 4a with just one plug over 6 with 2 battery, charger is probably regulated so wont supply required amps but after a few tests with all 4 plugs the charger started smokin, oops so running test came to an end.
anyway looks like i must be looking at a a voltage regulator to drop to 9v or 10v or 80a relay in the circuit which i dont want as i dont want battery draining so much.
have ordered a few bits to make a start on the control side, im thinking a 40*c n/c thermoswitch connected to the preheater body that will switch off the complete circuit once above 40*c and prevent it restarting on restarts if temp is already over 40*C.
i have a 12 v timer on the way 6 sec to 450 seconds adjustment i think, to play with time on at start ups
i also have a 12v temperature controller and probe on the way that i may also use and again i can play with temperatures that it comes on or off at.
might put a timer delay on in there also to keep the circuit off for say 10-15 seconds to make sure engine glow plugs are off so not drawing mega amps all at start up.
im not sure how long these preheater plugs are designed to be continually on for?
best location for access seems to be fitted in the egr cooler line between the cooler exit and the rail going over the exhaust manifold, might need some reducers as pipework is a bit smaller on that line.

Last edited by sussexa; 15-07-12 at 13:23.
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Any progress? I am very much interested in this subject.
I saw on FES that the climate control has some relays for additional heater control.
Does anybody know how they work and if they are present on a car that was not factory equipped with additional heater?
I've attached some pictures from FES
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File Type: jpg 1.jpg (123.9 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg 2.jpg (77.5 KB, 21 views)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zet View Post
Any progress? I am very much interested in this subject.
I saw on FES that the climate control has some relays for additional heater control.
Does anybody know how they work and if they are present on a car that was not factory equipped with additional heater?
I've attached some pictures from FES
It is a 2 step (relay) heater on top of the climate control intake system, image below (number 10 in the diagram).

It is controlled by the climate control system and ECU and is operational until engine reaches 60'C.

I had it on my Stilo with regular manual climate control.

You can very easily learn if it is available on your car (most if not all Stilos should have it including the 16V models) - just enable it in MES and do the relay tests. You can clearly hear them in the cabin if working as they are situated behind the passanger glove box and make a distinctive tick noise.
Also when car is idling, starting each relay will result in sudden rpm drop for a moment (just like when you turn on the AC).
Also third way to know they are operational is the heat coming out of the vents almost instantly when car is cold.

Btw many Alfas (147, 156, 159) also have the same thing - enabling is the same via MES.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg $T2eC16NHJGwE9n)ySfb8BQ6yiDsMEg~~60_35.JPG (25.0 KB, 179 views)
File Type: jpg heater.jpg (110.6 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by radoslavp; 27-09-14 at 09:35.
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I know it's an old topic but i want to also remove the egr cooler.

Is it possible to disconnect the pipes from the oil water exchanger and let the oil watcher exchanger in the car (out of function)?

I'm using for oil cooling a separately thermostat (aftermarket) with air oil cooler and i can not remove the oil water exchanger.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yan.ko View Post
There is coolant heater with set of three plugs available from the factory already (optionally). Controlled by ECU.


EDIT: yes, this one ...

Attachment 147587

#60657138 - heater
#156022582 - controll unit
#11129885, 11130088 - relays

Chmm, it seems to be available only on prefacelifted 156 models, interesting ....
i thin pre-facelifted 156 didn't have cooled EGR systems. my 2.4 from 1998 didn't.
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