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(Post Link) post #1 of 20 Old 20-06-12 Thread Starter
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MAP scaling help required

Would someone be able to point me to the location in the map of the MAP scaling data?
It's a Z19DTH the 1.9 CDTI Vectra with an EDC16C39.
I want to rescale for the Bosch 3.5 bar pressure sensor from the standard 3 bar item.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 20 Old 20-06-12 Thread Starter
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I knew I had seen it somewhere but I could not find it with a search
Many thanks
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Still having a little trouble with this. My understanding of the sensors from Bosch's PDF is:

3 bar absolute: 0.3v - 4.8v, 0.2 bar - 3.0 bar
3.5 bar absolute: 0.3v - 4.8v, 0.5 bar - 3.5 bar

My third party sensor is a 3.5 bar (0.0bar - 3.5bar) with a voltage range of 0.5v - 4.5v

The map has been adjusted to what the mapper thought would work but it is going into limp at low revs on the Bosch 3.5 bar sensor, giving generic MAP error codes. I was using the 3rd party sensor with a standard 3bar scaling and adding in some voltage with potentiometers to get the ECU to accept the readings. I can now run that sensor without the potentiometers at the low end but it sometimes complains of a boost leak at higher revs when off the throttle and the boost it low for the amount of MAF.

I have created a graph to show what I believe to be the different MAP outputs.
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File Type: jpg 20120628_MAP_graphs_JPG-U.JPG (17.2 KB, 21 views)
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first, I don't believe the MAP measure range really starts @0.0bar
second, ECU sensor info is not only about linearisation map. See https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...ml#post4797573 (not a MAP, but might give you the right direction)

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(Post Link) post #6 of 20 Old 29-06-12 Thread Starter
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Well I can only go on what is stated in the specification

Zeitronix MAP Installation
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(Post Link) post #7 of 20 Old 03-07-12 Thread Starter
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Is there an overboost limit specified in the map anywhere or it is purely a side effect of the quick spool of the turbo and hunting to the correct level?
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b) is right

min/max acceptable underboost/overboost limit is there as well
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(Post Link) post #9 of 20 Old 05-07-12 Thread Starter
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Do you know where?

I am having trouble with a massive overboost spike on the attempted 3.5 bar map and bouncing of the boost on the 3 bar map. I reduced fueling on the 3 bar map to see if it was bouncing off the O2 sensor but it does not seem to make any difference and I unplugged the O2 sensor on the 3.5 bar map with no change.
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That's not about setting one limiter (which will only trigger MCSF btw.). At least it's about tuning VNT open loop (setpoint) and closed loop (PID) maps. Not mentioning start of injection maps which have great impact on EGT ad thus on turbo control as well.
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(Post Link) post #11 of 20 Old 09-07-12 Thread Starter
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He tried backing off VNT duty but it resulted in much slower spool and then spikes later. This is becoming a very drawn out afair and I am planning to fit 20% uprated injectors within the next month, that will throw even more into the mixing barrell.
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(Post Link) post #12 of 20 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
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The MAP rescaling was achived and the 3.5bar sensor is running fine now.

VNT duty is very low now, just 19% at 3800rpm to run 2.1bar of boost but the boost spikes have all but gone. I am now using my external waste gate with no pressure feed, just cracking under exhaust gas pressure to releave manifold pressure and I can still reach 2.5 bar of boost with the reduced manifold pressure.

My injection timing was advanced to what OPCOM suggests is 22 deg with the water methanol running all the time above about 1.7 bar. That seemed quite high to me but the engine does not have any signs of knock and revs better at top end with 87% of max power still available at 5200rpm.
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It seems you
a) run super high flow injectors, with short injector opening time; or
b) end the injection quite late, raising EGT slightly

as guys here (me including) are advancing the injection to more than 30 deg to finish it a little after TDC at max power.

What's your maximum injection quantity and injection time?
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(Post Link) post #14 of 20 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
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30 deg seems extreem :/ max pressure should be achieved at around 16% after TDC for optimum performance / piston loading, if you are hitting peak pressure at TDC it would raise pressure greatly but would not benifit as much due to the ineffective crank angle. I am unfamiliar with the 'little after' measurement scale could you convert that to a figure or is it just the best result you have found through trial and error?

I am still on the standard 0445 110 159 injectors at 1800 bar max (I have three spares at the moment, collecting a set to get modded but waiting for cheaqp ones to pop up).

I have logs on my laptop but I would not know the max quantity I am injecting at the moment off hand. I dump in 700-800ml/min of 50:50 water:methanol too to keep temps down and add a bit more fuel.

I have enquired with my tuner as to how much advance he mapped in.
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Peak pressure should happen 10degs aTDC actually (that's what I'm calculating with). But it doesn't mean the injector energizing should end at those 10 degs. There is some time needed for injector to close and also for combustion propagation. I posted somewhere around nice chart of this process.
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(Post Link) post #16 of 20 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
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Well we teach 12-16 deg on our University accredited diesel engines courses.

I agree the injection needs to end long enough before that point to allow combustion to complete by or at the optimum point.

If you are using a formular to calculate the end point, could you share it so I can attempt to apply it and see what it says for my own please.
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just came accross your chart you were after(i think).
http://i42.tinypic.com/wink47.jpg
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(Post Link) post #18 of 20 Old 19-09-12 Thread Starter
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Peak pressure there looks to be before even 10 deg after TDC; if peak pressure was achieved that early, much of the energy would be wasted because the crank is not in a possition to be effectively driven.

My map does climb to 29 Deg advance at 5000rpm according to the mapper, which ties in with yourselves.
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It doesn't matter where the PCP happened there, it wasn't intended to prove best injection strategy - it's record of experiment taken on FIAT test rig. What it shows clearly is the delay between "injection end" (injector energizing end in real), end of injection, combustion propagation and cylinder pressure build.
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(Post Link) post #20 of 20 Old 19-09-12 Thread Starter
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If one for a water fumigated engine at the same rpm could be compared, that would be helpful but I can not find anything on google.
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