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(Post Link) post #1 of 117 Old 29-04-12 Thread Starter
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Project GT Q2 with GTB

I started new project, in this case - a car of my own. Itīs GT Q2 JTDm, 110kW original.
After instaling FMIC 700 and full exhaust, I installed EGT sensor and boost pressure sensor with analog gauge. Stock turbo, 90mm3, stock clutch, stock DMF - about 190HP.
Now I am going higher.
This is template for original exhaust manifold and original turbo.
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(Post Link) post #2 of 117 Old 29-04-12 Thread Starter
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Here you can see preparing my GTB2056V. Exhaust part was made to smaller external diameter -from 72 to 64. Intake part was cut and taking plain by lathe.
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(Post Link) post #3 of 117 Old 29-04-12 Thread Starter
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Tomorrow GTB will be fitted to template and I hope on Tuesday (holiday in my country) I will mount it to my GT.
On these photos you can see cat-bypass (anticor) for my exhaust. Second photo shows DMF before fitting pins. You can see 9 holes.

will be going on soon......
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(Post Link) post #4 of 117 Old 04-05-12 Thread Starter
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And now GTB with new exhaust pipe is prepared for mounting.
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Nice,

Similair mods to the GTB as I did.

Here's my template:


It looks like you've made a quite small compressor inlet pipe. Also your downpipe looks a bit small in diameter.
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(Post Link) post #6 of 117 Old 05-05-12 Thread Starter
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Inlet pipe is 48mm inner diameter, the same, as in intake housing, so no restriction is added.
Outlet pipe is 60mm outer diam, 56mm inner diameter. Housing is 52mm, so itīs a little bigger.
Yesterday night I have fitted my GTB into car. I has to cut the gearbox
It was terrible work to fit it well. Than oil supply, no space for hands, I made it more than 1 hour. Oil back pipe doesnīt match new turbo, so I have to make new one on Tuesday. Than airbox modification and I hope it will be ready.... Photos coming soon.

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Yep, it collides with gearbox. Here is mine https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...ml#post4425639. And it's bit worse on 16V.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sarkan View Post
Inlet pipe is 48mm inner diameter, the same, as in intake housing, so no restriction is added.
Outlet pipe is 60mm outer diam, 56mm inner diameter. Housing is 52mm, so itīs a little bigger.
Yesterday night I have fitted my GTB into car. I has to cut the gearbox
It was terrible work to fit it well. Than oil supply, no space for hands, I made it more than 1 hour. Oil back pipe doesnīt match new turbo, so I have to make new one on Tuesday. Than airbox modification and I hope it will be ready.... Photos coming soon.
Those diameters seem ok then, it looked a bit small in the picture.

For the gearbox, yes, that's a known problem. That's why I have rotated the GTB turbo on the manifold a bit to clear the gearbox. And that's why my downpipe looks a bit different.

Also the oil return will be quite a job to make something fit in the small space and also downhill all the way. I have actually machined a little bit off the turbine for this pipe.
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(Post Link) post #9 of 117 Old 06-05-12 Thread Starter
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Today I completed the engine. After starting oil leak appears. From main oil supply for turbo. Engine side. No place to do anything with it. So I took the car to my mechanics to repair it. I had no more patience for it.
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(Post Link) post #11 of 117 Old 07-05-12 Thread Starter
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nice yan-ko, but too late for my patience, Fortunatelly my machanic callede me, that alfa is ready and prepared for run.
Tomorrow I will take photos and I will tune
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(Post Link) post #12 of 117 Old 09-05-12 Thread Starter
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First results

After installing GTB I see, that it spools very bad with oem VGT maps. So I increased whole map +20% for beggining. After it it seems to be OK. GTB spools little later, than original 1749. My former 1749 made 2500mBAr in 1700 rpm, GTB makes it 150rpm later. Not bad.
Than I increased desired boost pressure to 3000mBar. First hose bursted. After exchange next one disconnected. I have repaired it and I made new maps. I didnīt adjust fuel qty in low rpm so much (till 3250), because of original clutch and DMF. After changing I will do that. For present my max boost is 3000mBar and max IQ is 110mm3. It smokes very very little in high rpm. SOI 30 degrees in full throtlle after 4500 rpm.
This is a short log - third gear. MAF is probably poluted, I expect more real air qty.
rpm mmģ/i mg/i mBar
2007 75,816 1025,5 2089
2404 77,967 1347,5 2725
2882 84,258 1355 2815
3399 104,979 1465 2999
3894 110,697 1313,5 2999
4335 101,283 1194,5 2999
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What is the intake air temperature?

MAF numbers do seem a bit low, but without intake temp data it is hard to judge.

You will need to upgrade your boost pressure sensor
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(Post Link) post #14 of 117 Old 09-05-12 Thread Starter
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I havenīt read my intake temp untill now, but before turbo upgreade, it was something between 30-50 centigrades at full load, 5th gear. Now itīs third gear, I believe 5th will be better. I will test on road tonight.
Do you think, that my MAP is only upto 3Bar?
Older Alfas have wider range?
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tunin...-gtb2056v.html
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your is definitely only 3bar. Olders are 2.5bar

you'll probably need to upgrade MAF as well.
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(Post Link) post #16 of 117 Old 09-05-12 Thread Starter
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What model do you use MAP from?
Recalibration is waitng to me.... Or new MAF makes higher voltage and no need to racalibrate?
I see more values for MAP:
SRC min value for boost pressure sensor
SRC max value for boost pressure sensor
(these two I understand)
aplication parameter for boost pressure sensor
2xramp slope for boost pressure sensor.
All these are single values.
What should I change? Maybe a good question for yan-ko. I will apreciate any help.

Last edited by sarkan; 09-05-12 at 10:36.
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I have 3.5bar MAP from Bosch and 850kg/h MAF from GTA. You'll need to "recalibrate" (in the ECU) both MAP either MAF.
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His car has EDC16C39, so he will have to find a MAF that has PWM output, not voltage like older ECUs use.
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I donīt need to upgreade MAF. My MAF is capable up to 3275,5 mg/i. Itīs enough.
I need only MAP upgreade, but I think I allready founfwhat I īwanted. I need to change both SRC and range. 4 values. The question is - what MAP to buy? I know bosch, 3,5 Bar. But how to buy it in my supplier? What car uses such a MAP?
here is a log after bursting my turbo hose - look at MAF
rpm IQ MAF mBar
2053 80,006 844,5 2031
2200 82,677 1244 2445
2379 88,776 2628 1014
1080 65,416 3275,5 975
993 3,687 3275,5 976
971 5,667 3275,5 976
956 7,053 3275,5 976
943 8,148 3275,5 976
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nope, MAF output depends on rpm
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sarkan, your maf can measure up to 640kg/h. Or 1333mg/inj @4000rpm, or 1185mg/inj @4500rpm, or 1520mg/inj @3500rpm... Or 2666mg/inj @2000rpm.

It depends on the engine speed as yan.ko said. Lower the revs higher the possible measured mass. But problem is evident once you hit 4000rpm.
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Quote:
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sarkan, your maf can measure up to 640kg/h. Or 1333mg/inj @4000rpm, or 1185mg/inj @4500rpm, or 1520mg/inj @3500rpm... Or 2666mg/inj @2000rpm.

It depends on the engine speed as yan.ko said. Lower the revs higher the possible measured mass. But problem is evident once you hit 4000rpm.
1. MAF - OK, I understand. Peak flow 640kg/h... Not good for me. But if adjust airflow diameter, output voltage decreases. So I have to increase intake inner diameter in place, where airflow is fitted. Than I have to recalculate voltage to new real values. Airflow depends on flow and square. square is 3,14 x r x r. I need 1/3 more square, so i need about 15% larger diameter. Than I have to recalibrate it in ECU.
The second soultion is to disable MAF. I can calculate airflow according to intake temp, pressure and VE. Than I set boost pressure according to it. It can make low smoke in low gears.

Does anybody have some advice, what bosch number to order? What about 0281006051? Itīs for 4 BAr. Or 0281002456?
2. My MAP is allready recalibrated. I only tried to change calibration values and now it shows 3500mBar, when real is 3000. So perfect, I only need to buy new MAP. Recalibration is quite easy, just to find correct adress!

Last edited by sarkan; 09-05-12 at 14:49.
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(Post Link) post #23 of 117 Old 10-05-12 Thread Starter
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More pictures: engine without turbo, gearbox cuting, EGT sensor, oil supply producing, turbo mount.
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Road test ended in 3000rpm.
Turbo hose has disconnected. I have to make aluminium intake manifold - complete manifold.
When it will be done, I will send report from road test and dyno test. I believe in 220-230 HP.
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Sarkan;

You don't have a FMIC ? I think it's strongly recommended for reliability and performance especially with this turbo upgrade.

For the MAF, you can use one from 159 2.4 20v 210 hp version. It is 80mm instead of the original 70mm and it's very compact. But if you want to keep standard airbox it's quite difficult to fit it in.
This is a new intake with 80mm MAF that I've made for a 147, should be the same for a GT:

http://i43.tinypic.com/166jexv.jpg

As you can see at the right side of the maf, I had to make an adaptor ring.

147 JTDm 16v - GTB2060v - 329 hp/578 Nm
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