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(Post Link) post #1 of 28 Old 22-04-12 Thread Starter
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Air filters mythbusted...

Pretty interesting stuff...

Mighty Car Mods - POD Filters Mythbusted - YouTube
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Came to the same conclusion with my last Brera.

Standard air box with a pipercross filter in it is the best alround solution.
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No surprises there.....
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The cone filters do sound great but always felt the Brera lost guts with one fitted.
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That settles it for me once and for all. I wonder what kind of setups companys like k&n run to achieve these gains they report or if indeed they do at all?
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I think a lot depends on the car in question - the intake snorkels on some cars are tiny and very restrictive, so an open filter may see a benefit
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The intake piping they are fitting these filters with is shocking.. that will cause massive disruption to the airflow....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil-gtv6 View Post
I think a lot depends on the car in question - the intake snorkels on some cars are tiny and very restrictive, so an open filter may see a benefit
This is absolutely correct - the object is to maintain constant performance as the filter gets dirty - particularly necessary with extended service intervals. A change to less restrictive system will often require re-mapping to see any gains.
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Depends on the car an more importantly the mods on the car. if you have done performance mods the oem airtake will become restrictive at some point, then an after marker will be needed.
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A good friend of mine designed induction systems (including the one on the AM Vanquish). He was always horrified that someone would remove a system that resulted from months of design, calculations and flow analysis, throw it in the bin and stick a cone on the end expecting it to be better.

If you are modifying the engine or, compromising the body design to allow greater direct air flow, changes will be required, but if you are keeping eveything else the same, fit the best filter you can find in the original airbox and put your faith in the designers that worked on the intake system.

Unless it is a french car where they spent all the time designing a backend that looks like a hippos arse, or you want to sound like you are going faster when you are in fact going slower - then use a cone filter.
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but surely a lot of intakes are designed to reduce engine noise as much as possible rather than gain maximum performance ?
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but surely a lot of intakes are designed to reduce engine noise as much as possible rather than gain maximum performance ?
Nowadays? You are right.

Unless its a performance derived car designed for that purpose, you can pretty much guarantee that standard induction systems are designed to reduce sound & emissions first and foremost. Thank the U.S (Californian) and Swiss market for that part!

As Javam says: A lot of performance related car manufacurer's go to a lot of trouble and effort to get it right with standard induction... Many mainstream "shopping/ family car manufacturer's don't though, space limitations and the above being the being a prime directive.

The results in the video dont suprise me. That is typical... However....
What does shock me is the lack of run length of the entire intake that they used with the aftermarket induction systems. Heat soak, airflow routing and buffeting all playing their part to make it as bad an effort as possible to get the worse result. But in all fairness, that's exactly what the average "Chav" does when fitting aftermarket induction kits
It wasn't the most "balanced" review I have seen...

A bit more effort and planning would see far better results, but that wasn't the point they were trying to prove, was it?
Am I a fan of after market induction? Yes and no!
If it's to get rid of bad design and build quality like the Alfa airbox lid and the issues it causes for example, then yes.

For the average Nismo/ Evo/ WRX/ GTi, prancing horse etc. then no!.... It was designed right in the first place.

As long as the correct principles and planned route is followed, there is no reason why healthy gains can't be achieved

There is always going to be argument's for and against...
My installation was out of neccessity really and the extortionate cost of O.E replacements!

Last edited by Grahameo; 24-04-12 at 11:49.
 
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I'm not agree with this conclusion - you can not expect lot of gain on 1.1 Daihatsu......
And you can't expect huge results from non turbo car.......sport filters did not give a lot extra power.....they allow engine to reach it's top power faster.......
Simple......
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do supercars run with pod filters? by that i mean ferraris, lambos etc?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil-gtv6 View Post
but surely a lot of intakes are designed to reduce engine noise as much as possible rather than gain maximum performance ?
It you look at the 156 TS intake it's pretty good apart from the resonator/inlet box. Tucked up in the wing it was designed, I understand, to reduce the noise .. but the design must also strangles the air flow into the filter box.

By swapping the resonator box out with a V6 or GTA intake pipe, you get a little more noise but a lot more responsive throttle. I did this several years ago, so I've got the V6 pipe on mine. But everything else is standard, even the air filter. I'm thinking of replacing that with an un-oiled one at some stage but I can't make up my mind which make.

... then the 156 makes it up for me when something else needs fixing in priority to the fun stuff

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One thing to mention about the dyno runs. You are supposed to run a car until it doesn't make anymore power. So 2 runs per filter wasn't enough. My GTA did 8 runs before it finally peaked at 256.4 BHP. They should have done that before testing the next filter so the whole thing is void anyway.
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And if youre running stock airbox with modified pod filter..? :>

I will be the same however..Some cars get power, some doesnt. I gained power for low-revs.

Stock filter - "Quiet sound"
POD next to MAF - Loud intake sound, imaginable more power
POD inside stock airbox - Sound between both, slightly gained power

Thats atleast how it went for me.
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This might be interesting

MiTo QV 170 pk, Alfa MiTo Benzine - Squadra Tuning

It basically says that the air box on the mito is restrictive even without mods, which means it only made 165 bhp, whereas the G with the same engine manages the quoted 170.

also reading the arbarth section it says again at how restrictive the air box is, and even managed an extra 7-8 bhp with a open cone filter.

This is a case where an induction kit is actually beneficial, especially once some mods have been done.

my panel filter sounds like it struggles
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i put a pod filter on my 2 litre 156 because it had so many leaks in the pipes that the maf always got dirt in it and it stopped working. with the new pod filter which is a cheap one i dont get the problems with maf anymore unless its wet. so there is some good things about them. however as soon as i rev over 5500 rpm the injection faliure light turns on but i think it's cause the filter is too close to the maf for now

here is a picture of it.
http://puu.sh/2j2N8
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The test does show a point or two about the aftermarket intakes that most of the car ricers use out there anyway, but I would like to point out some inacurrate things as well:
1) a POD or cone filter is not an induction kit so on it's own it will give results stated in the video;
2) However if you combine it with a propperly designed induction kit or system - that will be a different story.
3) a thought that was mentioned here about K&N - K&N do not officially publish any power graphs proving that their product works At least I could not find any official ones on their websites when browsing i.e. alfa filters and kits...

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Interesting stuff - I know a modified air intake in an MGF does make a big difference, but I'm sure for most cars it doesn't.
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It happens to other cars as well, not only MG
Here is an example for a Fiat Punto, where a revised intake alone gave 10 bhp gain:
GSR Induction Kit - 10 BHP Increase
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I use original box/housing, and cold air feed, but inside the box is pod filter.

that is a good way, and does not suck hot air inside.

didnt watch that document to the end, but I believe they didnt measure that way at all ?
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anybody who thinks that this induction system has been optimised for performance really does need to get out a bit more
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