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(Post Link) post #1 of 24 Old 12-09-11 Thread Starter
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3.0 CF2 manafold and equal length front pipes

I'm sure there was a thread on this but i can't find it. I'm sure mergy mod will be along if there is. :Elaugh: Last week while the cambelt and clutch were being done evil Dan managed to twist my arm into the precat removal mod for the GTA When I say twist I mean dangle it like a shiny thing infront of a magpie
Anyhooo I thought I'd share my experience of the mod with you. Firstly can I say what a difference it makes to the speed of the car. Very noticable and it sounds awesome. The welding on the pipes is top notch and looks great. I would definitely advise anyone who is having their clutch/cambelt done to do the mod and would do it again but and there is one but, you do need to be prepared to make lots of adjustments to get it to fit. Take it to someone who is prepared to take there time and tweak it to get a perfect fit. The engine has to come out to fit the rear manafold. I modified the original GTA exhaust heat shields as I wanted to make sure the front and rear were still protected. I'm sure some people wouldn't be bothered but as these engines create so much heat it would be advised or you may have issues down the line. You also have to loosen the power steering pipe on the pump and move it round so that the manafolds clear it. This can be done without bending the pipe if you are careful. The pipes are very tight an sit quite close to the rear engine mount. You must heat the pipes with torch and bend them to get them to fit. I had to mod the bracket and protective plate on the rear mount to get mine to clear and not rattle. You also have to remove a small plate on the subframe which is held on by a 13mm bolt. Also be aware you will need to get manafold gaskets and cat gaskets and maybe some bolts if your cat studs sheer off. Once this has all been done you can enjoy the extra power,torque and noise. Thanks Dan!! Very happy and a big thanks to Loz and Glen at autolusso bournemouth with whom I wouldn't have been able to do it with out
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Alfa 156 GTA, Q2, Super sprint, CF2, EQ, KW coilovers, Eibach rollbars, Powerflex.
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Good stuff - be interested to see what it makes on the next rolling road!

By the way, were you there when the gaskets arrived? Addressed them to Loz but added in a little suprise for him...
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(Post Link) post #3 of 24 Old 12-09-11 Thread Starter
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Yeah i can't wait to put it on the road and see what its producing. Its good that i had a base figure so we can work out exactly how much extra bhp they are giving me

As for the suprise in the packet didn't know loz was into that stuff! Loz's face was brilliant.
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Bit of a long standing joke, but yeah he loves it

That facial expression is just worrying - I fear its permanently burned into my memory
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(Post Link) post #5 of 24 Old 12-09-11 Thread Starter
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Well serves you right.
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I saw about 20bhp from this without a remap on mine. Had huge headaches over the clearance around that engine mount though.
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I fitted 2.5 manifolds and Alfatune EQ down pipes, there is no need to take the engine out if you are doing the clutch at the same time as the rear manifold just slides out to the N/S of the car ,the down pipes fitted perfectly and once fitted I welded up the joints at the back and did away with the clamps ,on the rolling road I gained 11 BHP and the car feels much sharper and sounds gorgeous ,next step is down to Adie for a remap

John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silvervalver View Post
I saw about 20bhp from this without a remap on mine. Had huge headaches over the clearance around that engine mount though.
It does feel massively quicker so I'll be interested to see how much I am up of the 256.4 bhp I had before

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Originally Posted by black cat View Post
I fitted 2.5 manifolds and Alfatune EQ down pipes, there is no need to take the engine out if you are doing the clutch at the same time as the rear manifold just slides out to the N/S of the car ,the down pipes fitted perfectly and once fitted I welded up the joints at the back and did away with the clamps ,on the rolling road I gained 11 BHP and the car feels much sharper and sounds gorgeous ,next step is down to Adie for a remap

John
It was just easier to take it out as I was doing the clutch and cambelt plus the studs broke off on both idlers so the engine would have had to come out anyway at that point to get them out.
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Sorry to go back to a question i think has already been answered whats the difference again with 2.5 156 manifolds and 3.0 gtv manifolds
Does it really make a difference which ones? which is easier?
i see the 2.5 156 manifolds are up for sale on ebay far more often than 3.0 gtv manifolds
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(Post Link) post #10 of 24 Old 15-09-11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will01 View Post
Sorry to go back to a question i think has already been answered whats the difference again with 2.5 156 manifolds and 3.0 gtv manifolds
Does it really make a difference which ones? which is easier?
i see the 2.5 156 manifolds are up for sale on ebay far more often than 3.0 gtv manifolds
The difference is one fits a 3.0 GTV and the other fits a 2.5 156 Only kidding I don't know what the difference is really. I know the 3.2 and the 3.0 share the same block. possibly the 2.5 too but all with different liners. On the 3.2 round the back is a big 3.0 stamp on it Cheeky alfa! This is why they are all interchangeable. I'm sure someone will know
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There is no difference in the front manifolds. Even ePER is giving the same code. However the rear ones differ. 2.5 does not have a lambda hole inside. Has to be drilled and welded in.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-c...00/tmp6EFA.jpg
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(Post Link) post #12 of 24 Old 22-10-11 Thread Starter
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I had the rear welded in so i must have 2.5 on the rear then
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joss View Post
I'm sure there was a thread on this but i can't find it. I'm sure mergy mod will be along if there is. :Elaugh: Last week while the cambelt and clutch were being done evil Dan managed to twist my arm into the precat removal mod for the GTA When I say twist I mean dangle it like a shiny thing infront of a magpie


Anyhooo I thought I'd share my experience of the mod with you. Firstly can I say what a difference it makes to the speed of the car. Very noticable and it sounds awesome. The welding on the pipes is top notch and looks great.

I would definitely advise anyone who is having their clutch/cambelt done to do the mod and would do it again but and there is one but, you do need to be prepared to make lots of adjustments to get it to fit.

Take it to someone who is prepared to take there time and tweak it to get a perfect fit. The engine has to come out to fit the rear manafold. I modified the original GTA exhaust heat shields as I wanted to make sure the front and rear were still protected. I'm sure some people wouldn't be bothered but as these engines create so much heat it would be advised or you may have issues down the line.

You also have to loosen the power steering pipe on the pump and move it round so that the manafolds clear it. This can be done without bending the pipe if you are careful.

The pipes are very tight an sit quite close to the rear engine mount. You must heat the pipes with torch and bend them to get them to fit. I had to mod the bracket and protective plate on the rear mount to get mine to clear and not rattle.

You also have to remove a small plate on the subframe which is held on by a 13mm bolt. Also be aware you will need to get manafold gaskets and cat gaskets and maybe some bolts if your cat studs sheer off.

Once this has all been done you can enjoy the extra power,torque and noise. Thanks Dan!! Very happy and a big thanks to Loz and Glen at autolusso bournemouth with whom I wouldn't have been able to do it with out
Quoted and modified so that I can read it...
 
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Re the heatshields, why not source some CF2 156 V6 ones instead of "modifying" the originals?

Are the 3.0 manifolds any different to the CF2 156 ones? I thought it was only the 3.0 164 QV ones that were bigger?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere View Post
Re the heatshields, why not source some CF2 156 V6 ones instead of "modifying" the originals?
Or use something like this:
Thermo-Tec : Exhaust Insulating Header Wrap (Graphite Black)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere View Post
Are the 3.0 manifolds any different to the CF2 156 ones? I thought it was only the 3.0 164 QV ones that were bigger?
Already answered it. They're same in size. But rear without lambda hole on 156 2.5.
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(Post Link) post #16 of 24 Old 25-10-11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere View Post
Quoted and modified so that I can read it...
:thefinger: Well you obviuosly read it so you could modify it :nutter:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere View Post
Re the heatshields, why not source some CF2 156 V6 ones instead of "modifying" the originals?

Are the 3.0 manifolds any different to the CF2 156 ones? I thought it was only the 3.0 164 QV ones that were bigger?
Not sure if they match. The front heat shield on there now is the 3.0 GTV one. This I got from an engine that was in Loz's garage. I didn't know that the pipes were so different as they are so it never crossed my mid until I did it that the orignal front one wouldn't fit. As for modifying the rear.

1. The engine in the garage only has a shield under the manafold not on top as it doesn't have the Pre cats so obviuosly doesn't produce as much heat and I guess isn't so much of an issue on teh GTV.
2. With it all being so close to the power steering pipes and other bits I just wanted to make sure that it was protected as possible. The heat shield is much much large and comes right down to the subframe so protecting much more of the pipework. Can't comment if the 2.5 is the same
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yetyGT View Post
Or use something like this:
Thermo-Tec : Exhaust Insulating Header Wrap (Graphite Black)



Already answered it. They're same in size. But rear without lambda hole on 156 2.5.
Ah right, sorry I missed that. So you still need to weld in a hole for a lambda on the front manifold?

Re the heat wrap, it's a good idea in principal but you have to be very carefull in ensuring consistent coverage otherwise the manifold will crack. This is not ideal if you have to remove the engine to replace it...
 
(Post Link) post #18 of 24 Old 25-10-11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere View Post
Ah right, sorry I missed that. So you still need to weld in a hole for a lambda on the front manifold?
The front one already has it. It is the rear one that is missing
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Its not visible in your pic?

So you have to weld an insert into the rear manifold?
 
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only if you use the 156 2.5v6 manifold
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(Post Link) post #21 of 24 Old 25-10-11 Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stratosphere View Post
Its not visible in your pic?

So you have to weld an insert into the rear manifold?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuore_Sportivo_155 View Post
only if you use the 156 2.5v6 manifold
Appologies guys. I just went out and stuck my hand down the front of the engine. The front manafold doesn't have the lambda in it. The front pipe does that Dan had made. Just after the 90 degree bend before it goes under the sump. The back is on the manafold though just before the flange but that did have to be welded in.
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On the GTV 3.0 CF2 the front bank lambda screws into the front pipe, the rear bank lambda screws into the rear manifold. So when fitting these to GTAs you need a front bank front pipe with a lambda boss welded into it as the GTA front bank primary lambda screws into the manifold just before the cat.

If you are using 156 V6 CF2 manifolds then the same applies as above, except you need to add a lambda boss into the rear bank manifold (or you could add it to the rear bank front pipe if you wanted to, and had a lambda sensor with a long enough lead).

Autolusso Penrith - UK's leading independent Alfa Romeo specialist with branches in Bedfordshire, Cumbria & Dorset

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(Post Link) post #23 of 24 Old 25-10-11 Thread Starter
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thanks for confirmation mate. It's been a few weeks since I looked at it
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That took long enough...

Thanks for the confirmation dan.
 
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