156 Adjustable Wishbones - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 29 Old 07-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
156 Adjustable Wishbones

Hi Guys
Just doing a wee home project on suspension for 156
See link below
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...lfa-156-a.html
I am really looking for accurate sketches of wishbones and suspension mounting points on a 156 so i can model the suspension in CAD and see what happens when slight changes are made
Eventually hoping to model up some Adjustable Front upper + lower wishbones and rear suspension arms
I not looking at actually making the components but if someone has done already e.g. for a race car build. i am looking for extra input

If not i may have try to measure the points when i eventually come round to fitting polybushed wishbones on the front end of my car

Another question does anyone know of any companies who have modified wishbones for race use etc?
will01 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: 3,75 running great :)
AO Car Of The Year Winner 2015
Membro Medio
 
gotcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Slovakia
County: Bratislavsky
Posts: 3,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by will01 View Post
Hi Guys
Just doing a wee home project on suspension for 156
See link below
https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...lfa-156-a.html
I am really looking for accurate sketches of wishbones and suspension mounting points on a 156 so i can model the suspension in CAD and see what happens when slight changes are made
Eventually hoping to model up some Adjustable Front upper + lower wishbones and rear suspension arms
I not looking at actually making the components but if someone has done already e.g. for a race car build. i am looking for extra input

If not i may have try to measure the points when i eventually come round to fitting polybushed wishbones on the front end of my car

Another question does anyone know of any companies who have modified wishbones for race use etc?
The 4 rear transversal arms are available in adjustable version and much stronger built including polybushes from alfisti.net and also alfastumper.

I can imagine making the front arms adjustable can be very difficult.
gotcha is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 29 Old 07-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
Its the front i want to focus on really, the rear arms look very simple to make adjustable, i was aware of stronger versions from various places, thanks for the input

Gotcha how are you getting on with those V3's?
will01 is offline  
Status: just starting to tweek things
AO Member
 
markrnorton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: United Kingdom
County: Essex
Posts: 13

Member car:

147

I am also looking at this, but i was going to rose joint rather than polybush

I was going to jig rather than cad and work from there
markrnorton is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 29 Old 08-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrnorton View Post
I am also looking at this, but i was going to rose joint rather than polybush

I was going to jig rather than cad and work from there

Sorry i too would like to make Rose jointed arms, but only in CAD for the time being. However I will be fitting polybushes for the GTA.
The CAD work will be so that i can make up a fully adjustable system for the 156 and model its affects etc

If you do get round to making a jig, the measurements off it would be useful for setting constraints to model something up.
will01 is offline  
Status: 3,75 running great :)
AO Car Of The Year Winner 2015
Membro Medio
 
gotcha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Slovakia
County: Bratislavsky
Posts: 3,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by will01 View Post
Gotcha how are you getting on with those V3's?
They are really good. Hard to describe. Perfectly damped, stiff but still with more comfort than much cheaper solutions. I guess its really true that you get what you pay for. I am comparing mostly with my other 147 on Eibach and Bilstein B8 dampers and even though I love that setup and would recommend it, the KWs are so much better. I don't understand how can there be so much comfort with so little suspension travel and body movement. They do have high-speed compression bypass valve, so hitting some bump at speed means they absorb the hit smoothly but are back stiff again at slow suspension compression in corners.

147GTA,Grigio Metallico,Imola leather,3.75l conversion,ported heads,F575 TB,Carbon plenum,Stainless manifolds,EQ pipes,Supersprint silenced cat back,18" GT multispokes,KW V3,Galfer 6pot 355mm,Brembo sport rear

147 1.6TS, Nerro,Beige Interior,Galfer Extreme Brake kit,2,0TS intake manifold,Custom ex. manifold,200CPI cat,Supersprint silenced center + OO backbox,GTA spoiler,GTA side skirts,GTA headlights,Blaupunkt LA MP74 + Focal + MacAudio + Dynamat + HERZ subwoofer
gotcha is offline  
Status: Selespeed that's reliable
AO Gold Member
 
turbonutters's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 7,047

Member car:

GTV 2.8 Turbo

I upgraded my 1998 GTV’s front suspension to a 156 suspension and am also looking at making the front more adjustable.

Remanufacturing the lower control arm may be a bit of a problem since the car is actually carried by the lower control arm thanks to the way that the shock is mounted on it.
What would you like to adjust?
Castor, camber or probably both?
Do you want to play with the geometry to allow for camber changes under load when cornering?
turbonutters is offline  
(Post Link) post #8 of 29 Old 12-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
Yes Camber and castor would be great to be able to adjust for lower control arm and i would like to make the upper wishbone fully adjustable also
The thing is at the moment i dont know exactly how the front suspension behaves however if i can get accurate measurements for the mounting points and the height of at least one mounting (along with suspension component geometry) i can see exactly what changes will have an affect to static setup and also see what happens when the steering is turned and or bump conditions
I have a copy of Mitchell software at home i am also trying to get most recent update to it as it has the double a arm suspension layout
i will say at this point i am only looking at it for interest and understanding, i cant see myself actually physically making anything due to other commitments
will01 is offline  
Status: Selespeed that's reliable
AO Gold Member
 
turbonutters's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 7,047

Member car:

GTV 2.8 Turbo

If I remember I will measure the GTV's arms since they are nice and easy to reach.
And I would also like to see exactly how they behave.
turbonutters is offline  
Status: alfa's,alfa's,alfa's @Auto Zagato
AO Member
 
tim0172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 390
Madeno racing in the Netherlands made back in the days excentrical upper wishbones for the challenge cup 147/156 maby they have some in stock? Madeno Racing (they now do mostly Renault )

Good Luck!

Tim
Auto Zagato
Attached Images
File Type: jpg madeno_147_156.jpg (12.2 KB, 808 views)
tim0172 is offline  
Status: alfa's,alfa's,alfa's @Auto Zagato
AO Member
 
tim0172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 390
Here's another one in mounted position
Attached Images
File Type: jpg madenoalfa156147wishbone.jpg (33.7 KB, 94 views)
tim0172 is offline  
Status: Selespeed that's reliable
AO Gold Member
 
turbonutters's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: South Africa
County: Gauteng
Posts: 7,047

Member car:

GTV 2.8 Turbo

That is brilliant and shouldn’t be to difficult to modify
turbonutters is offline  
Status: alfa's,alfa's,alfa's @Auto Zagato
AO Member
 
tim0172's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Netherlands
County: Zuid Holland
Posts: 390
only downfold is by creating negative camber in the top suspension arm there is a limit based upon the space between the upright and the shock.
I know in the Dutch Alfa Challenge they also used to 'bend' the upright to create more negative camber.
tim0172 is offline  
(Post Link) post #14 of 29 Old 19-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
so u could make up eccentric bushes no problem but would also have to make up small notch or something to stop them turning, maybe like machine in a spline?? have to do some thinking now on how they would do this
will01 is offline  
Status: 156 3.0 GTAm 1070kg 200kw
AO Silver Member
 
alan Q4+33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,020

Member car:

156, 166

I just found this thread I'm in a making of 156 daily-track car and was thinking alot of adjustable camber/castor. On my previous car (gtv) i moved lower arms further 12mm and widened the track some 4mm, this plus camber bolts (mcpherson) gave me -2.5° camber and around 4° castor (good degree over stock)

On 156 i was trying with moving the whole upper strut mounting point, but its so tightly fitted in the wheel arches that no more than few mm of adjustment could be made.

So i think i'll try this (two pics pasted together in paint just for display):



Ofcourse arm will have 5mm thick alu plate welded in the middle (stock casting is thin)
With elongated holes or bigger holes and eccentric washers i will be able to move the balljoint in/out or left/right. And Balljoint will be replaceable this way too (older vw passat has something like this so no problem with parts )
alan Q4+33 is offline  
Status: Rh - C8H18
AO Member
 
Speedmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bulgaria
County: Stara Zagora
Posts: 377
Garage
Making front suspension adjustable is huge advantage when driving on track.
Below is my way to add few degrees of camber via the upper wishbones.
But if there is a way to move lower wishbone 25mm forward in order to achieve caster(BMW e36 had very useful eccentric bush, but it's wishbone is different)......
Sadly it's hard to achieve 25mm forward with this lower wishbone and subframe......
New, custom made wishbone with changeable balljoint is only solution......

Last edited by Speedmaster; 03-11-13 at 05:01.
Speedmaster is offline  
Status: 156 3.0 GTAm 1070kg 200kw
AO Silver Member
 
alan Q4+33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,020

Member car:

156, 166

Yep i thought of welding too, but i would like to make it adjustable. Lower arms can go forward for max 15mm, but there is a lot of "homemade" stuff involved. And that is max the axleshafts can handle.

By shorting upper arms you achieve bigger camber and caster too, but ofcourse moving lower arms forward is better as you shift the weight to the back a little bit more.
alan Q4+33 is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,802
Could you use upper or lower arms from the 166? Or 166 hub carriers? I've seen it done on a 156 but not sure of the effect..
Pud237 is offline  
Status: 156 3.0 GTAm 1070kg 200kw
AO Silver Member
 
alan Q4+33's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,020

Member car:

156, 166

Lower are different. Upper arms have same bushes but i dont know about the dimensions, design is similar. Will try to get some used ones for test.
alan Q4+33 is offline  
(Post Link) post #20 of 29 Old 09-12-11 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
i was thinking more about ditching the whole upper suspension arm and re-making from scratch using rose jointed ends and adjustable seperate ball joint much like alan q4, if you had left and right hand threaded tube for where the rose joints are you could maybe adjust in situ.
This was just going to be a computer exercise only for the near future though unless of course i do end up buying another 156
will01 is offline  
Status: Rh - C8H18
AO Member
 
Speedmaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Bulgaria
County: Stara Zagora
Posts: 377
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by alan Q4+33 View Post
Yep i thought of welding too, but i would like to make it adjustable.
Yep, if it's adjustable - better still.....
Did small research for appropriate joint, and it seems to me that is a good solution - had 4 holes for solid fixing.
Will buy one and see if i'm able to do something useful...

JapanParts Catalogo Prodotti
Speedmaster is offline  
(Post Link) post #22 of 29 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
Hi Guys, also looking at ideas on rear 156 Suspension arms
see picture attached, i found online but have question on areas circled red, are these just for bracing and stiffening the joint up??

Last edited by will01; 22-02-15 at 19:02.
will01 is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 29 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
And to update on front wishbones, i will be replacing the whole suspension this winter as i have now almost got all parts, so once i have the old stuff off the car i will use to see if i can re-design to make fully adjustable arms
will01 is offline  
Status: -
AO Platinum Member
 
David C's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: London, England
Posts: 29,952
Quote:
Originally Posted by will01 View Post
...have question on areas circled red, are these just for bracing and stiffening the joint up??
They are to stop the long bolt bending.
David C is online now  
(Post Link) post #25 of 29 Old 11-09-12 Thread Starter
Status: GTA on the road being enjoyed
AO Silver Member
 
will01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Dumfries and Galloway
Posts: 2,607
thought as much thanks David .
on same subject then does this bolt bend in OE setup? and should it be replaced when doing suspension rebuild?? looks like i should be able to knock something up without having to purchase
will01 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
156 , adjustable , wishbones

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
So how many and where are the GTA's ??? 156GTASW Alfa GTA 608 27-10-11 09:11

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome