8V JTD brakes upgrade - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 52 Old 28-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
8V JTD brakes upgrade

After the series of 8V JTD turbo upgrade (200/210HP 159 turbo) and 8V JTD gearbox upgrade, I'm here with another one. Enjoy.

Braking power is more important than the engine power - you know - you CAN move off, but you HAVE to stop - so after increasing the engine power, it was quite logical step. I decided to exchange whole uprights to improve handling as well. So went the GTA way.

They looked quite badly rusted, when arrived ...


...but after few hours of cleaning with radial steel brush on drill-machine, ...


... cleaning from rust dust and demoisturing ...


... and after two layers of anticorrosion treatment, they didn't look so bad.



One Squadra member just upgraded from 305s to 330s. So I got his 305s.


Almost complete set with spare discs (and with cleaned calipers)


Dry fitting test - looks good.


Wheels fitting test showed that 12mm wide spacer is needed to fit the wheels (both summer/winter have ET35 as GTA ones though)
I'm not happy with the spacers, hope they will not wear the bearings a much.


Painted and lightly machined brake discs


Cleaned caliper (LEFT), lacquered and polished (RIGHT)




Some DP41031R yellow stuff :-) just delivered. I wonder why they don't sell them also for GTA.
(Only Dodge Viper, Fiat Coupe and Alfa Romeo 3.0 GTV shown on the sticker)




Dry fitting test

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Squadra Moravia

156SW 1.9JTD: GTB2060VKLR turbo, performance cam&head, WM injection, 6speed Q2 gearbox, 4p Brembo brakes, 2.5" stainless exhaust, FMIC, upgraded sensors, lowered & stiffened suspension, own remap
GTV 3.0V6 24v: C30-94 charger, short gearbox with Quaife ATB, big 4p Brembo brakes, SMF, lowered suspension, custom freeflow equal lenght x-pipe quad tips exhaust

Last edited by yan.ko; 09-11-11 at 09:26. Reason: commented
yan.ko is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
(Post Link) post #2 of 52 Old 28-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
JTD uprights disassembly in progress


Oops, JTD inner wheel hubs diameter is some 2mm smaller than GTA. Will need to exchange them as well


All uprights stripped


Not reusable half-bearings, and reusable hubs


New bearings mounted


JTD hubs pressed in


Looks good now


GTA-JTD ABS/brake pad wear signalization wiring holder mounting holes


JTD wiring holder modded, welded and zinc sprayed


Painted


And fitted


Goodridge braided hoses - I thought they sent me wrong ones, as i didn't know there is rigid pipe between caliper and hose.


But pair of 14cm brake pipes (F type, M10x1 outer thread) would fix that.


Fitted, but don't like it a much for poor safety - hose is not secured anywhere, pipes would tend to loose by cornering after some time.


Another way - banjo bolts and M10x1 couplers

Last edited by yan.ko; 18-05-11 at 14:21.
yan.ko is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 52 Old 28-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Attached and thread locked



Fitted


Looks good, either hose fits the lower fork holder.


Two pairs of 15mm wide spacers


Finally fitted



Voilŕ! My bella machina

Last edited by yan.ko; 28-04-11 at 21:04.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Spain
County: Barcelona
Posts: 117
Good job.
Vic_O_O is offline  
Alexandrus
Status: - Update
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Can I ask why did you use banjo bolts instead of the stock metal pipes ?
 
Status: -
Newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Ústecký
Posts: 3

Member car:

.

Very nice
zdenek is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Nice!

How much space do you have between the caliper and the rim?
TribesMan is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: North West of Ireland
Posts: 519
Lovely looking work, fair play to you
Leitrim155 is offline  
(Post Link) post #9 of 52 Old 28-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic_O_O View Post
Good job.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zdenek View Post
Very nice
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leitrim155 View Post
Lovely looking work, fair play to you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexandrus View Post
Can I ask why did you use banjo bolts instead of the stock metal pipes ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TribesMan View Post
Nice!
How much space do you have between the caliper and the rim?
Thank you, guys.

Now there is 5mm space between wheel spokes and caliper. I'm not sure how much is between caliper and rim (didn't measure it), but it's far enough either for 330 calipers.

For safety reason. The unsecured pipe and hose come to me as a weak point (there is a brake pipe holder attached to the back upright(?) on stock 305s GTA, which I haven't in my setup).

Last edited by yan.ko; 18-05-11 at 14:39.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: missing Inverurie
AO Gold Member
 
Pascs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Qatar
County: Aberdeenshire
Posts: 8,063

Member car:

Zender 156 V6

I have same banjo bolt fitting on my Ferrari 360 Brembos and they provide a nice fitment with unlimited adjustment of the hose coming from the caliper.

I think the benefit of the short metal brake pipe is that it keeps everything away from the driveshaft but it should have been secured to the caliper or something

Looks good BTW
Pascs is offline  
(Post Link) post #11 of 52 Old 28-04-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TribesMan View Post
Nice!

How much space do you have between the caliper and the rim?
Some picture from early stage dry fitting tests. (winter 16" on left, summer 17" on right)
yan.ko is offline  
Status: To err is human, but feel is divine!
AO Member
 
dusanGT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Novi Sad
County: Serbia
Posts: 782

Member car:

GT JTDm + Q2

Great mod
dusanGT is offline  
Status: 329 hp
Club Member
Membro Medio
 
JS JTD's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 1004
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Netherlands
County: Noord Brabant
Posts: 1,713
Again awesome thread, great job!!
JS JTD is offline  
Status: filthy, just filthy
AO Member
 
m-a-r-k-o's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Lincolnshire
Posts: 234
Garage
Great job done but...forgive my ignorance - the original GTA upgrade was because the 305 disks were warping on GTA's - what's to say this won't happen on your JTD? Is it just down to weight of the cars, assuming the GTA is quite a bit heavier than even a 20v JTD?
Really good write-up though!
m-a-r-k-o is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Well since the original brakes on 20V JTD are only 276mm*20mm the 305mm*28mm will a huge improvement. And GTA is only few kilograms heavier than 20V JTD.

It is not the weight of the car that wraps the discs, they wrap because of the overheating (and thats got a lot to do with driving style)
TribesMan is offline  
(Post Link) post #16 of 52 Old 18-05-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Yep, that's it. I have heard about warping of these 305 discs, but IMHO it really depends on the driving style. And as this my bella is a family car, not the racing one, I think I'll avoid that issue.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: filthy, just filthy
AO Member
 
m-a-r-k-o's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: United Kingdom
County: Lincolnshire
Posts: 234
Garage
Thanks for clearing that up!
m-a-r-k-o is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
yan.ko one more question for you regarding brake upgrade. (and also for others if it happens that anyone else knows the answer)

I have a chance to buy complete set of GTA uprights with Brembos and all fittings for reasonable amount of money.
But as I can see, I need to swap the wheel hubs since the inner diameter on JTDs is smaller than on GTAs. But after that I also need to replace the bearings since the old ones can't be fitted back (if I understood your guide).

Looking through the bearings catalog (and ePer) I saw that bearings for all 156s are the same (all engine types), but 147GTA uses different bearings (same as all 156s) compared to other variants of 147 with smaller engines.

Now I'm in dobut which bearings to buy. The ones for 156/147GTA or the ones for standard 147?

I went through ePer and as far as I can see, 147 and 156 use completely the same uprights. But I cant figure out what is the difference between wheel bearings.
Only thing I could find is difference in wheel speed sensors. Could that be the case? There seems to be a few different versions but I couldn't find a pattern there.

Which ABS sensor did you use on your car? The one that came with GTA uprights or the original ones you had on your car?
TribesMan is offline  
(Post Link) post #19 of 52 Old 31-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Yes, you will need new bearings because the old ones get splitted. I used the GTA ABS sensors as they come with the uprights (just soldered them to existing wiring).

I don't know what's the difference between 147 nonGTA and GTA bearings.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Did you use GTA ABS sensors because the original "JTD" ones are not compatible (different shape/size) or some other reason?
TribesMan is offline  
Status: Suck , Squeeze , Bang , Smoke!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Allerd's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 1723
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Netherlands
County: Drenthe
Posts: 770
On a non GTA 147 you should use normal 147 bearings and your own ABS sensors.
147 ABS is diffrent Compared to 156, sensor goes further inwards.
Allerd is offline  
Status: To GTB or not to GTB?
AO Silver Member
 
TribesMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Slovenia
County: -
Posts: 2,289
Thanks a lot for that info Allerd, just what I needed to know!
TribesMan is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 52 Old 31-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by TribesMan View Post
Did you use GTA ABS sensors because the original "JTD" ones are not compatible (different shape/size) or some other reason?
I hadn't planned to remove them and use the JTD ones, neither checked if they are compatible or not. I was happy I don't need to get them out, as it's quite a nightmare.
yan.ko is offline  
(Post Link) post #24 of 52 Old 31-08-11 Thread Starter
Status: no pain, no gain
AO Silver Member
 
yan.ko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Czech Republic
County: Moravskoslezský
Posts: 1,951
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Allerd View Post
On a non GTA 147 you should use normal 147 bearings and your own ABS sensors.
147 ABS is diffrent Compared to 156, sensor goes further inwards.
If the uprights come with ABS sensors fitted I would left them there and use GTA bearings.

Last edited by yan.ko; 31-08-11 at 19:03.
yan.ko is offline  
Status: Busy busy busy!
Club Member
Membro Premio
 
Pud237's Avatar
 
Club Member Number: 71
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United Kingdom
County: Cumbria
Posts: 44,788
Quote:
Originally Posted by yan.ko View Post
If the uprights come with ABS sensors fitted I would left them there and use GTA bearings.
Did you use GTA wheel bearings and non-GTA hubs?
Pud237 is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
brakes , jtd , upgrade

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
***Definitive 147/156 GTA brake upgrade thread*** ukoldschool Alfa GTA 351 06-03-14 15:15
So how many and where are the GTA's ??? 156GTASW Alfa GTA 608 27-10-11 09:11
Data Cable and Software Andyg1983 Alfa 147, 156 & GT 25 30-08-10 07:48
Diagnostic software freeware? 156head Alfa 147, 156 & GT 27 18-03-10 14:24
Upgrade Brakes to 330mm Per Alfa GTA 34 01-03-07 18:27

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome