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(Post Link) post #1 of 32 Old 18-04-11 Thread Starter
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Upgrading ABS ECU...

Does anybody have an idea if it is possible to upgrade standard Bosch ABS 5.7 ECU in 147 or GT to newer Bosch ABS 8.0 ECU found in models fitted with Q2 differential?

I'm asking this because I think this ECU has major effect on the operation of Q2, without that you can never get the same effect as on factory Q2 equipped car.

"Electronic differential block" in older Bosch 5.7 operates only up to ~40km/h (braking inner wheel if it is loosing grip), newer unit works also at higher speeds, and does not only retard engine power like 5.7 does when you go above 40km/h.
I think this is the reason why Q2 retrofitted cars never perform like they should.
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Traction/Slip control is performed by the Bosch ME 7.3 and CANBUS messages are sent to ABS ECU to perform this function.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TribesMan View Post
....

"Electronic differential block" in older Bosch 5.7 operates only up to ~40km/h (braking inner wheel if it is loosing grip), newer unit works also at higher speeds, and does not only retard engine power like 5.7 does when you go above 40km/h.
....
Actually, according to elearn:
The ASR function is active under all car speed conditions. Braking action is cut out after 80 km/h.
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Quote:
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Actually, according to elearn:
The ASR function is active under all car speed conditions. Braking action is cut out after 80 km/h.
I can guarantee you that after 40km/h there is no braking on my car... only throttle retardation. Mabye GTA models have ECUs programmed differently, but "ASR braking" is limited to 40km/h at JTDs.

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Traction/Slip control is performed by the Bosch ME 7.3 and CANBUS messages are sent to ABS ECU to perform this function.
Not really, the detection of traction loss is made by ABS ECU, and then the message is sent over CAN Bus to engine ECU (bosch EDC16 in my case) which cuts off the throttle.
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Quote:
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Not really, the detection of traction loss is made by ABS ECU, and then the message is sent over CAN Bus to engine ECU (bosch EDC16 in my case) which cuts off the throttle.
No, wheel speed information is sent to the ECU via CAN. Traction control is done on the ECU, any activation of the abs pump is called from the traction control system in the ECU not the ABS ECU.
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Unless your sure the newer ABS uses the exact same subset of CAN id's and data as the previous version. This wont work either.
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c'mon...

Engine ECU does not get any information about individual wheel speeds. It only receives the speed of the front left wheel, which is used to calculate vehicle speed. Also lateral acceleration and yaw angle sensors signals are not sent into the engine ECU. ECU can't calculate when wheel slip occurs without at least individual wheel speeds...

Everything about traction and VDC is done inside ABS ECU...
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Did you see friction map and iq->Nm, Nm->iq maps in ECU (EDC15, I'm not sure if and how they look in EDC16)?
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Friction maps define engine loss because of bearing friction and consumption of auxiliary pumps it needs to run. It is heavily coolant temperature dependent and it is got nothing to do with ABS.
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ok, then these two (per wheel? torque maps) ...
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iq->Nm, Nm->iq maps are used to communicate over CAN bus with ABS ECU.
Because EDC15 is not "torque based" like EDC16, you need conversion maps from iq-Nm to let the ABS ECU know the current engine torque, and Nm-Iq map is used for throttle retardation when ABS ECU limits the engine torque.
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i dont think you know the first thing about what you are talking about.
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The ABS/VDC module installed in 156 (year 2002) is 5.7, and work better then installed in 147. More permissive than 147, "ASR braking" works very well. In 147 is a mess, cut a lot of power.
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TMC: True, the 147 ABS is very restrictive, also VDC does not allow messing about much... but I guess it cannot be simply changed from 156 to 147 easily? Also the ABS module has to be setup differently because the size and weight distribution of the car?
Do you have any experience with ABS module from GT? Also 5.7... is it more 147 or more GT like in terms of behavior? That one should be exchangeable easily as GT is very similar to 147, I guess simple proxy alignment after the exchange would do it...
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Which is form of mentioned "Nm-Iq" or "Iq-Nm" maps for EDC15 ECU?
I didn't find map with, for example, following form:
Z-axis - Fuel IQ
X-axis - Torque
Y-axis - RPM...

Last edited by dusanGT; 29-04-11 at 17:47.
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two 12x12 maps side by side. The Nm figures are per driven wheel and multiplied by 10 or so.
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Something like this...?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Clip_15.jpg (65.7 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Clip_16.jpg (65.8 KB, 28 views)
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(Post Link) post #18 of 32 Old 29-04-11 Thread Starter
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Dusan, in your car they should be at 72E66 - fuel -> torque, and 72FBE - torque -> fuel
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Originally Posted by dusan View Post
Something like this...?
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Thank you fellows...
Locations 72E66 and 72FBE are for 332_962 software. For my 332_624, addresses are 73078 for "Fuel IQ→Torque,RPM" and 731D0 for "Torque→Fuel IQ,RPM".
ECU uses "Fuel IQ→Torque,RPM" map for limiting throttle (i.e. Fuel IQ) according to the maximum allowed torque? Per driven wheel?
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Interesting-I ve heard something like this before, a couple of years ago-that the ASR map was different in factory Q2 cars, few people said it wasnt the case, interested to know the facts.

Sometimes my car feels like the front wheels are doing different things and want to go in different directions-maybe this is why ?

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i dont think you know the first thing about what you are talking about.
Oh I think he does !

. . . do you ?
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. . . do you ?
no
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lol
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(Post Link) post #24 of 32 Old 02-05-11 Thread Starter
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ABS ECU is definitely different on Q2 models, you can check that in ePer, you will see that there is a special part only for Q2 equiped cars...
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Great, thats more expense for a new ABS ECU then !
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