147 1.9 JTD 8v - brake of the gearbox housing... - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 26 Old 14-04-11 Thread Starter
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147 1.9 JTD 8v - brake of the gearbox housing...

Bad luck or something else...
One piece from differetial's bearing/gears broke and made one (approx. 20mm) hole in my gearbox casing.
What is the main reason for this:
a) age of my Alfa (2001 year),
b) low quality of material of bearings,
c) high load applied to the gearbox/differential parts, caused by remap and drive style?
Is the solution "Q2" or "Quaife" LSD?
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There are more reasons for that. As you know you have the same differential as all V6 Alfas. And those are known to brake if you are aggressive with it. Hard accelerations out of the tight corners and driving off at full lock are main reasons. Just check the GTA section and you will see.
Of course remapping your car didnt help... but main is driving style.
Of course the simple solution is Q2 which is known to hold more torque, or limiting the torque in you ECU in first and second gear, but it is a bit too late for that
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I know about these GTA problems - it is very weird that such class of car/engine has so weak quality differential...
Are you sure that my ECU (332_624) has separated torque limiter maps for various gears?
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Yes there are gear dependent torque limiters inside your ECU.
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For my 1.9 JTD 8v I found only one torque limiter map (19x1)...
Are gear dependent torque limiter maps with same 19x1 dimension?
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nope, 15x1
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Last edited by yan.ko; 14-04-11 at 20:32.
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Sorry to hear so bad news. Broken differential, that's nothing special to Alfas. I know about three simillar cases happened here on Ford, Skoda and VW. Do you have uprated clutch Dusan? At which torque/iq &rpm did it happen?
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In founded six (50608 00015) 15x1 maps all values are 10000...
This bad thing did happen in small acceleration circumstances (first or second gear) in the typical normal street drive. I don't remember exactly, but RPM was about 1500... I have standard "Valeo" clutch and standard flywheel.

Last edited by dusanGT; 14-04-11 at 20:34.
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that's it. These three before main torque limiter are the low gears (1, 2, 3) ones.
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Are values "10000" in these maps actually percentage of full torque given in main torque limiter map?
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So does the ECU know what gear you are in? I thought it knows about being in reverse and operating the wipers but after that on an 8V jtd I'm not sure it does anything more intelligent unless its a selespeed?
 
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Yes, and if I remember correctly, first three are for 1st 2nd and 3rd gear, then there is another 15x1 map which is torque limiter for MCSF (values are not 10000), second to last is for 4th and 5th combined and the last one is for reverse.

Values are in mm3/inj...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusan View Post
Are values "10000" in these maps actually percentage of full torque given in main torque limiter map?
Nope, iq (100cmm/i)
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ECU calculates the gearing factor between engine RPM and wheel speed.
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Maybe I see wrong (15x1) maps but all values are "10000" in each of mentioned maps...
In that case, values in main torque limiter (19x1) map are limit for all gears and reverse?
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yes
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Yes you see the right ones, all values are 10000, but the maps are not positione one after another, there is a torque limiter for MCSF in between and also another 2D map.

Yes in your case the main torque limiter defines the max torque for all gears.
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Compare your file with the one from Fiat Stilo...
Stilo has limited torque in 1st 2nd and 3rd gear and also in reverse...
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First four 15x1 maps are with "10000", then one 10x10 map for "something" and last two 15x1 map with "10000". It is clear now...
What is meaning of fourth (15x1) torque limiter map for MCSF?
Btw, the biggest value in my main torque limiter map is "8500", i.e. 85cm/inj (for 2000RPM). It is not big value, IMO...
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I'm not sure about 4th map but I think it is for neutral...
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mrw1DR_KL, 15x1, BEG torque/fuel qu. limiting (1st gear step), M_fuel = f(N)
mrw2DR_KL, 15x1, BEG drive away/torque limit., fuel qu. limiting, M_fuel = f(N)
mrw3DR_KL, 15x1, BEG torque/fuel qu. limiting (3rd gear step), M_fuel = f(N)
mrwBDB_KL, 19x1, BEG torque limiting M_fuel = f(N)
mrwBEM_KL, 12x1, BEG quantity limiting curve (system defect) M_fuel = f(N)
mrwGDR_KL, 15x1, BEG torque/fuel qu. limiting (off-road speed), M_fuel = f(N)
mrwKNL_KL, 15x1, BEG fuel quantity limiting (jump start) M_fuel = f(N)
mrwRDR_KL, 15x1, BEG torque/fuel qu. limiting (reverse speed), M_fuel = f(N)
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Oh my... It's full of data...
And what are these maps?
15x1, (off-road speed)
15x1, (jump start)
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jump start would be probably neutral. off-road - have no clue. Probably some reduced speed used on off-roads (not used on alfas?). To be honest, I haven't played with these maps a much. I have them all excepting mrwBDB_KL and mrwBEM_KL set to 12000.
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Thank you yan.ko for sharing very useful information with us...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yan.ko View Post
jump start would be probably neutral. off-road - have no clue. Probably some reduced speed used on off-roads (not used on alfas?). To be honest, I haven't played with these maps a much. I have them all excepting mrwBDB_KL and mrwBEM_KL set to 12000.
Was that the solution for removing the 100mm3/inj limit problem that you had a while ago?
I knew about this limiters, but it never came to my mind suggesting you to look there... :/
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