Giulietta QV (and not only) Tuning Guide - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 147 Old 05-03-11 Thread Starter
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Giulietta QV (and not only) Tuning Guide

Introduction:

Hello, I 'll start by introducing myself. My name is Stelios and I have a decent amount of experience in tuning which I will gladly share through this guide with you. I have been extensively reading and studying on cars and tuning since young age, managing to successfully tune 4 cars in the past 2 of which above stage 1, making it a hobby in the process. I am 31, I live in Athens, Greece and I am rather new to this Forum but I 'd like to contribute a little something to this nice Alfa Romeo corner, helping pple that are interested, in the task of tuning their favorite Giulietta. I own a Seat Leon 1,8 TFSI (you guessed right, its tuned - 220hp atm) but I am currently waiting (for the last 1,5 months to be exact) my new Giulietta Quadrifoglio Verde which should be arriving within the next 3-4 weeks according to my dealer (I 'll post pictures when I get it, I only say in advance that its really looking special ). Back to our topic, I have been using this time productively, making an extensive research about the tuning options available for the QV during which I also came in contact with the options available for the rest of the G's as well.

Basics:

Before I really start, let me go through some basic stuff for those that aren't involved in tuning but also for those that are, so they can understand my point of view and my approach for THIS tuning guide. I 'll ONLY be writing for now about a 1st stage tuning which involves up to 3 different upgrades. Ecu Tuning, Exhaust Tuning, Induction Tuning. I will only be approaching 1st stage tuning for 3 reasons: a) Its not really expensive, b) its rather safe for your car which is important since we are talking about your new and rather expensive car and c) it will offer you a good performance/money ratio.

Ecu:

IMHO, no questions asked, go for the NOVITEC Powerjet 3 for 1,8 Turbo or the Powerjet 2 for 1,4 if you have any of the rest of the petrol Engines. Novitec also makes an ECU power-box for Diesel engines but I wont be talking at all about them since wanting a fast car and going for a Diesel one is like wanting to be polite and farting in a wedding reception (and pls skip the comments about how many fast cars with diesel engines exist cause for each one of them there is an equivalent displacement / characteristic petrol Engine that makes that car go 1,5 times faster). Back to our conversation about ECU, I have spoken to a ****load of pple over email and phone over the last month, that offer all kind of upgrades, so what made me suggest the Novitec Powerjet? a) They have experience in AR tuning. b) I have tried them in the past and was really pleased with their products c) You DON'T get to keep your warranty with ECU upgrades (if the dealer claims that a problem is related to it they wont cover the repair costs, but they can't remove all your warranty coverage) BUT since this is a removable product that connects before your ECU with a cable and changes the information the car sends to it making your original ECU act in a way that increases your cars HP / Torque, IF anything happens to your car at some point (I don't mean related to it) you remove it, you go to your dealer, they check the problem (whatever that might be) and they can't know that you had it on, so they can't give you sh.. about that losing your warranty and bla bla bla. After your visit there you can replug it and you have it working exactly as before . Let's get to where you want: You gain 26 hp and about 40 Nm of torque from that. That means your QV will get up to 261 Hp and 380Nm at Dynamic Mode (25 - 30 HP for the 1.4Lt engines too). Your Normal Mode gets up to the performance your Dynamic mode had BEFORE the ECU tuning. The powerbox does NOT change any of the other characteristics your DNA system affects. Something you wont find easily: there is a safety switch that after 90 seconds of continues full throttle the Powerbox reduces its effect by 50% and another 50% (down to as it was) after another 90 seconds (again assuming you haven't lifted the throttle pedal even once). Link to Novitec Giulietta products: Novitec | Giulietta | Engine | Novitec Automobile GmbH , Alfa Romeo , Fiat , Ferrari and Maserati Tuning

Exhaust:

2 and ONLY 2 options atm available for our lovely G's. Ragazzon - Supersprint (all Petrol Versions included since they have both developed systems for 1,4Lt - 1,75Lt Engines). My suggestion starts with Rag and ends with azzon. Why? OK, a) Price, b) Sound (subjective but I think my judgment is decently good), c) both are experienced brands in making Italian cars exhaust systems and acknowledged so no reason to choose Supersprint over Ragazzon since in a & b Ragazzon is better. They both promise from 8-9 to 15 HP for a complete system (including the catalytic converter). Let me take away the confusion I just created about the HP gains. NONE of them offers a DYNO test result. I have contacted both and I have heard different stories for what they expect their exhausts to give to your cars performance but the bottom line is, combined with my car and tuning judgment / knowledge, expect a result of about 10 HP on average at a price of about 1,8k Euros for Ragazzon and 2,6k Euros for Supersprint. Also you will gain some Torque which I don't want to speculate how much is going to be but not less than 20Nm for sure. Keep in mind you 'll have NO warranty issue with any dealer no matter how strict they are for changing your exhaust. If you don't want the complete system because you are mainly aiming for the sound change, the back exhaust part will give it to you, along with about 2-3 hp at a price of about 600 - 650 Euros. Link to Ragazzon: Ragazzon Srl and Supersprint: complete exhaust system ALFA ROMEO, exhaust components Alfa Romeo GIULIETTA, car tuning ALFA ROMEO

Induction:

Not much to report here unfortunately. 2 options again available but none of them really makes me tick. BMC and K&N (K&N only has for the 1,75Lt engine and to look it up you ll have to check for the 159 engine since it has the same induction as the GQV) have replacement filters for our G's but none has produced yet a complete induction system. So if you upgrade the other two (ECU & exhaust), I suggest that you change your filter too (about 80 - 85 Euros is the price), to make sure you give your car that little bit of extra air that might be needed. Again, I have contacted both these companies about potential gains and none had something solid to report but I am guessing (again from XP), you might get from a negligible result to a MAX of 1-3 HP and 10 Nm of torque. Speaking once more from personal experience and hear me out here pls, I KNOW you want better sound from the gay suppressed induction sound the G has, especially if you compare it to older Alfa's, BUT DON'T change your complete induction system to a universal one without having seen printed and tested results that prove it is going to offer a power upgrade. Otherwise you risk paying money for something that might make your car lose HP / Torque, something I have seen many times in the past happen. So IMHO, we should be waiting for someone to produce and test a complete induction system for this car before going fwd and replacing the stock. On the contrary the replacement filters I suggested are safely certain not to give you a negative result, in the worse case scenario they wont give you a positive. Keep in mind you 'll have NO warranty issue with any dealer, no matter how strict they are for changing your induction system. Link to BMC: ALFA ROMEO | Products Results | AIR FILTERS BMC | AIR FILTER | CAR | MOTORCYCLE | bike - racing - venturi admission system - carbon dynamic airbox | BMC Air Filter and to K&N: K&N Products by Vehicle Search - Year, Make, Model, Engine Search

Some Extra Info:

After speaking with a lot of Tuning Shops that offer the products mentioned above, the best by far in knowledge, friendliness and professionalism was Alfisti.Net (Link for G's: Alfa Romeo Shop - Tuning, Styling, Fanartikel und Modellautos - Alfa Romeo Giulietta Tuning & Styling ). They have both the Novitec powerboxes and all the Ragazzon exhausts. This is the shop I decided after a market search to buy from but as I said I am only stating and sharing my opinion / suggestions.

Conclusion:

Upgrading all the above will result in your car gaining from 35 -40 hp and up to 60Nm of torque but another question is, does your car already produce what it promises? If you have a 1,4Lt G yes I promise it does. If you have the QV I am afraid it doesn't. I cant with absolute certainty guarantee that, but having seen 2 dyno tests, the QV probably produces about 225hp instead of 235hp that the factory specifies. Still not too shabby. Final numbers: the 1.4Lt 170hp engine will get up to about 205hp, the QV to about 270hp (260Hp if it indeed has 225hp stock as I think it has) and the 1,4Lt 120hp version to about 160hp. You 'll also gain some nice sound from the exhaust (not annoying but muscular) and a nice smile in your face since your car is going to be performing way better than it did as stock.

P.S. 1: Excuse my mistakes in writing but English is not my main language
P.S. 2: I 'll be happy to see pple contribute by keeping this guide up to date, also pls feel free to contact me or PM me about anything.
P.S. 3: I decided to spice up in the very near future this guide by adding a stage 2 section

Last edited by Vulgi; 16-03-11 at 05:52.
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(Post Link) post #2 of 147 Old 05-04-11 Thread Starter
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As I posted above I had already made my decisions about my GQV tuning. Here are some of the items that I have already bought on their last display BEFORE they get mounted on my car. I should have the car itself on Friday so as you understand within the weekend I ll make the appropriate picture posting .

Ragazzon full exhaust system:

Front Pipe:



Center Part with metallic Catalyst Converter 200cpi (folded in 2 parts):





Back Part with twin tailpipes:





And fitted on the car:










Novitec Powerjet 3:




Last edited by Vulgi; 11-05-11 at 18:11.
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I'm interested in hearing how you get on with the Novitec Powerjet box, if it's good I'm thinking of getting one for my 159 TBi TI... any chance of pic of the fitting?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedydog View Post
I'm interested in hearing how you get on with the Novitec Powerjet box, if it's good I'm thinking of getting one for my 159 TBi TI... any chance of pic of the fitting?
Sure thing. I 'll take pictures from the engine bay, its rather easy so don't worry, you shouldn't have any real problems doing it yourself.
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Good thread
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Hey Vulgi , thanks really interesting post, and Im glad somebody has started this, cause ever since Ive bought my QV I always wanted to tune it.

I have made my own induction system and have put a post up some time ago. I didnt do it for power but for some extra sound from the engine and I must say its awesome now.

This is the original post https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...on-syetem.html
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twanspider View Post
Hey Vulgi , thanks really interesting post, and Im glad somebody has started this, cause ever since Ive bought my QV I always wanted to tune it.

I have made my own induction system and have put a post up some time ago. I didnt do it for power but for some extra sound from the engine and I must say its awesome now.

This is the original post https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa-...on-syetem.html
My friend, I am fully aware of your efforts and I have been monitoring your thread since the day you made it. Its a really good the job you did to get that exra roar the car is missing, I am still waiting though for something to be developed that will also ensure some extra HP output before I make any moves changing the stock system. If they dont release something soon, I will start experimenting with the BMC universial induction systems but on a dynometer and ofcourse I 'll post results in this thread and inform pple for my progress. Thx to everyone for your good words, I am always availiable for any help or feedback you guys need for improving your G's.
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What turbocharger Giulietta QV use? Exhaust manifold and turbo are one piece ? or separately?
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Hey Vulgi, Im interested in the Ragaazzon system. Can you please explain to me the different parts of the Ragazzon system:
1. Rear box ... thats ok
2. Metallic catalyst 200 cpsi + centre silencer
3. Stainless steel cat replacement pipe group N
4. Stainless steel centre pipe group N

Which parts did you get apart from the Rear box ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twanspider View Post
Hey Vulgi, Im interested in the Ragaazzon system. Can you please explain to me the different parts of the Ragazzon system:
1. Rear box ... thats ok
2. Metallic catalyst 200 cpsi + centre silencer
3. Stainless steel cat replacement pipe group N
4. Stainless steel centre pipe group N

Which parts did you get apart from the Rear box ?
The parts m8 are 3 that you need to use for the full exhaust. Parts 2 and 4 are used alternatively with each other. If you want to put your car in a track you can skip the catalyst completely and use 4. For the street you use 2. So the street legal system I have bought according to your numbering is 1,2+3. The race track system would be 1,3+4.
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Originally Posted by Vic_O_O View Post
What turbocharger Giulietta QV use? Exhaust manifold and turbo are one piece ? or separately?
I think they are, I remind you though that I ll have the car in my hands tomorrow so I will be able to inspect and verify 100%. I will also post pictures too of the engine bay from below and over it without the plastics etc.
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Great thread! I can't wait to see some effects (dyno) and hear the sound of your beast!
Pls, get back soon and post something
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I updated the pictures of previous post and will soon upload more like: Tuning Box fitted on the car, more pictures showing the bottom of the car and better view of the rest of the exhaust. I will also upload the audio file with the Ragazzon sound for the full range of engine's RPM.
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Your GQV is great.Waiting for your Ragazzon video .

Any dyno reports ? And I really want to see the pictures showing where and how you installed novitec powerjet 3.
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Your GQV is great.Waiting for your Ragazzon video .

Any dyno reports ? And I really want to see the pictures showing where and how you installed novitec powerjet 3.
I just uploaded the rest of the Ragazzon pictures at my post above, from the bottom of the car and the hood showing the exhaust fitted on. Within the week I 'll make and upload the video since I just finished the run in of the car and I can finally use the full RPM range to make it ROAR properly.
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What BHP figures you getting with that Powerjet 3? Somehow it baffles me how NO tuners has developed a map for the standard ECU yet...like a REVO/GIAC/UNITRONIC/APR for VAG cars...no extra hardware to install to work with the standard ECU...just a modified map upload to the standard ECU.
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What BHP figures you getting with that Powerjet 3? Somehow it baffles me how NO tuners has developed a map for the standard ECU yet...like a REVO/GIAC/UNITRONIC/APR for VAG cars...no extra hardware to install to work with the standard ECU...just a modified map upload to the standard ECU.
The Powerjet gives 26hp exactly on its own and about 40NM of Torque.
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Im thinking of the Powerjet 3 that (supposedly) gives 42 extra BHP and 50 Nm. Any reason why did you went for the the Powerjet 2?
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Im thinking of the Powerjet 3 that (supposedly) gives 42 extra BHP and 50 Nm. Any reason why did you went for the the Powerjet 2?
I didn't. I got powerjet 3. It gives as I said 26hp. Novitec | Giulietta | Engine | Novitec Automobile GmbH , Alfa Romeo , Fiat , Ferrari and Maserati Tuning . See for yourself if you don't believe me, this is the official Novitec page. You can get a powerbox with more if you ask for it but you can kiss your engine goodbye sooner or later with more than that. The turbo charger of the QV cannot tolerate more pressure to get that kind of HP added, its too small. To get over 270hp roughly that you get with exhaust, Powerjet and an induction system you definitely need bigger turbo. It gives 42hp though to the 159 - Brera engine and the reason is obvious, it has less HP with the same turbocharger so bigger distance from the "limit".
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Ok, ok.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulgi View Post
To get over 270hp roughly that you get with exhaust, Powerjet and an induction system you definitely need bigger turbo. It gives 42hp though to the 159 - Brera engine and the reason is obvious, it has less HP with the same turbocharger so bigger distance from the "limit".
TBi and QV use different turboes...

And the QV does not (always) have 235 hp as claimed, but morelikely 220-225 hp according to Squadra Tuning.
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TBi and QV use different turboes...

And the QV does not (always) have 235 hp as claimed, but morelikely 220-225 hp according to Squadra Tuning.
You are in both points right BUT: a) about the turbo I was only referring to the size of it which I think is the same (we care about the size for this issue) b) the fact that the QV has 225 hp I have already mentioned to my own guide above if u haven't seen, so yes that is a correct as well.
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Quote:
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You are in both points right BUT: a) about the turbo I was only referring to the size of it which I think is the same (we care about the size for this issue) b) the fact that the QV has 225 hp I have already mentioned to my own guide above if u haven't seen, so yes that is a correct as well.
a. The QV turbo can handle more power, so you can call it a bigger turbo.
Size is not important, power capability is.

b. If so, then your assumption the Powerjet 3 adds 26 hp is wrong since its advertised power is 261 HP. That's 36 Hp more from 225 hp original.
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Quote:
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a. The QV turbo can handle more power, so you can call it a bigger turbo.
Size is not important, power capability is.

b. If so, then your assumption the Powerjet 3 adds 26 hp is wrong since its advertised power is 261 HP. That's 36 Hp more from 225 hp original.
a) again you are right but at the same time wrong. I have spoken with alfisti.net tuners and a Greek tuner and they both agree with the powerjet, induction and exhaust you get the limit that this car can offer with this turbo charger, for more HP you need to change it

b) the 261HP is an advertising trick. They know it gives 26hp so they tell you 261 (235+26) you get with our tuning box. Now if you ever went and tell them listen my car has 251 hp with your tuning box they ll answer to you that if your car produced to begin with 225hp instead of 235 is not their mistake nor does that make them liable. "We are basing our numbers on the trust of Alfa Romeo's claims which we are not responsible for" would be what you 'd hear at the end and tbh you can't blame them for that. I have extensively analyzed it while corresponding with tuners of Novitec and Alfisti.net and they all claim they can offer more HP with the tuning box if you ask for it but they do NOT recommend it in any way so you should take responsibility if you insist on it.
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