Gtv 3,0 V6 TURBO - Alfa Romeo Forum
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(Post Link) post #1 of 172 Old 16-10-10 Thread Starter
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Gtv 3,0 V6 TURBO

Hello guys,I just finished tuning my lovely Gtv 2,0 V6 TB into a 3,0 V6 12v TB,and wanted to share my project with you.
Starting from my completely stock 33000 km Gtv,i was not satisfied about its engine (i love its sound,but not its power and performance),so...Instead of tuning the stock engine,i decided to start from a 3,0 12v engine from a '97 164 3,0 12v (motor code 66303).

My target was reaching absolutly reliable 400cv and more than 50 kgm,so i began.
Pistons.
I used CPS pistons designed by me about surface,rings height and position,and valve places (i don't remember the right name...). Bore 93,4mm instead of 93 stock pistons,volume chamber 66cc instead of 58cc,so the compression ratio is 8,5:1. Obviously bored and honed stock liners.

Conrods.
After long sessions on the dyno with another V6 alfa engine, I decided to use sotck conrods,enough for more than 500 cv. Polished and balanced with <0,1gr tolerance by me. New bolts and bearings.

Crankshaft.
The crankshaft had no wear,so i just cleaned the oil ducts, and polished the main journals and rod journals.

Flywheel.
I like hearing sport engines revving up with lightened flywheel,so i decided to do this on my engine,but this is a V6 engine,so i had to re-balance the main pulley-crankshaft-flywheel-clutch assembly,and is it not an easy thing,because you have to balance every piece,individually and then the assembly.

Oil,water pump.
Stock oil and water pump are enough for my project,so i decided not to upgrade them. I only built a new water pump pulley with a smaller diameter. (-5%).

Heads.
The hardest part of the project. I made a flow test on a flow bench,and figured out that intake and exhaust ports are not enough,IMHO,so i machined,polished and put again on the bench to improve head ports,using stock intake valves,and Nimonic 80 uprated exhaust valves,41mm instead of 39,5mm. I made a three angles cut of valve seats,30°-45°-60° on the intake (1,5mm width contact band),15°-45°60° on the exhaust (2mm width).

New valve guides on both sides,new oil seals.

Camshaft.
After many hours on the dyno,i realized that 2,0 TB camshafts (Int lift: 7,6mm.Ex lift: 8,5mm.
28°-59° 65°-38°, 267° 283° duration) were not so good,so i tried to use stock 3,0 12v camshafts (Int lift: 9,1mm. Ex lift: 8,5mm. 32°-67° 59°-33°,279° 272° duration) were much better. Unlike many turbocharged engines,which need short exhaust duration and overlaps, my V6 engine needs longer exhaust durations,because of long exhaust manifolds that require long exhaust pulse.

Exhaust system.
Stock manifold,U pipes and turbocharger support can provide a good work,if you study and apply the right camshafts. The downpipe is a brand new one,handmade with an 80 inner diameter,the remaining tube is a stainless 76mm,including bends,with two silencers.

To be continued...


P.S.: Tomorrow,with pics...

Bye,Flavio
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Last edited by Il Busso; 16-10-10 at 21:48.
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Great work

Got any pics?
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(Post Link) post #3 of 172 Old 18-10-10 Thread Starter
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Turbocharger:
In order to reach my target,the engine needs about 40 lb/min,so in the Garrett catalogue,i chose a Garrett GT3071R,with a 0,86 exhaust A/R. Althought this is a big turbocharger for a road use,on my 3,0 engine it gives an excellent boost response,at all revs,starting from 2000 rpm,with a full boost just before 3000 rpm.

Injection system:
For a correct AFR,stock injectors (190cc) are obviously not enough,so replaced them with Fiat Coupé T16 380cc injectors,with stock FPR (3bar) and a Walbro fuel pump (255l/h)

Head Gaskets:
As i said,this engine must be powerful,but especially reliable,so i wanna be sure with these rings between liners and heads.

Clutch:
I use my car in every condition,in the traffic,in tracks,on highways,so i didn't want a copper clutch,not so modular and progressive,so i used an organic disc with a reinforced pressure plate,able to keep about 50 kgm,and despite very hard springs,it feels so smooth and soft on the pedal. What a good thing!

Throttle body is stock,with a 72mm diameter is good...

ECU,MAF,sensors and wirings are stock,with a live mapping at 0,5 bar it gives almost 310cv and 41 kgm,and at 1,2 bar it gives about 400 cv and 50 kgm,don't know the exact amount because the differential has gone destroyed at the second pulling on the dyno,just finished replacing with a TorSen diff...next week i'll be back on the dyno...

Last edited by Il Busso; 18-10-10 at 21:50.
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(Post Link) post #4 of 172 Old 18-10-10 Thread Starter
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Some pictures incoming
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(Post Link) post #5 of 172 Old 18-10-10 Thread Starter
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Pics...
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Do you have a spare turbocharger support bracket?
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great project all the best .
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Wish I had the knowledge to do something like that..........great project......
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hmm.. so it can be done.. great project!
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require video now!!
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Il Busso, excellent work !!! Double the power, I like it.

I am "sort of" going down the same path due to my 164 TB having a rod issue. However, my project is very low budget, combining the 2.0 crankshaft into a 3.0 engine to obtain a 2.7 turbo. All stock except for the uprated injectors. Thanks for the insight on the cams.

Thanks for documenting, your GTV turbo project is beyond brilliant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pud237 View Post
Do you have a spare turbocharger support bracket?
The GTV turbo bracket, 60614977, is shown to be available for about €200. The similar looking part is NLA for the 164 and 166. All of these turbo brackets are a little different, likely due to exhaust plumbing angle variations. If bracket fabrication were required, looks like it would not be cheap.
Burns Stainless LLC - Hardware, Supplies ~ Flanges ~ Turbo Inlet Flanges
Burns Stainless LLC - Merge Collectors ~ 2 into 1 ~ Turbo
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Further confirming your change to the stock cams. I downloaded a ten day full trial of Engine Analyzer Pro, engine simulation software. The 2.7L simulation results led to your conclusion, the stock 12V cams work best when a turbo is applied. In addition, simulating four cam specs from Colombo and Boriani led back to the stock is best conclusion again.

Simulations suggest that my low budget 2.7 TB only adds another 10 HP to the total 230 HP provided by Squadra Tuning chips. However, the turbo spools up really fast, average HP is up about 30 throughout the rev range.

Thanks again for documenting your project. When possible, please post and update.
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Wow that is great And the Lotus is cool too
 
(Post Link) post #15 of 172 Old 25-10-10 Thread Starter
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Thank you guys,i'm happy to know you like my project! Videos are coming soon,time to definitely fix the diff...in the meantime,i'm running with 0,5bar,and compared with a Subaru 2,5 STI with exhaust and remap,they look like having the same power. What a good thing!

For Lotus in the pics...i worked in a Lotus garage,i was surrounded by Exige,Esprit,Elise...my italian Alfa was a strager in that small piece of UK!

A very good thing is the engine bay. There is no absolutly difference between the two engines,not even the turbocharger,hidden by the heat shield on the manifold. Hoses are black,as stock. The whole engine bay looks like stock...

P.S: fuel consumption are almost better than the stock 2,0 V6 turbo engine.
City:
2,0: 7 km/l
3,0: 6 km/l

Highways (130km/h):
2,0: 10 km/l
3,0: 12-13 km/l

Limit:
2,0: 3 km/l
3,0: <1km/l

Last edited by Il Busso; 25-10-10 at 14:21.
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Kens,i hope you are replacing the stock turbocharger with something bigger...The stock T25 is small for a 2l engine,and absolutly small for a 2,7l engine. You could crack something for excessive temperature due to backpressure! However,your project is very interesting as well! But why don't you use the 3,0 crankshaft?
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The 3.0 crankshaft has too much compression. So, destroking to 2.7L provides less compression. I am trying to keep a lid on this daily driver mini-project so that I can get back to finish a more satisfying project. You are doing the project correctly, with the effort going into a GTV. It is difficult to sink a lot of money into a 164 these days. An undersized turbo could work around town, it might not do well on a long autostrada blast. Theoretically, we don't drive autostrada speeds in Texas.

If my turbo experiment goes badly, I could complete a 3.0 24V engine rebuild or source another 2.0 TB engine. Are you selling your 2.0 TB engine?
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Wow That is amazing !

Videos defintely required now.

How does the car handle ? Is it lighter or heavier than the normal V6

What do you estimate the 0-100km or 0-60m times ?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freds GTV 2001 View Post
Wow That is amazing !

Is it lighter or heavier than the normal V6
Interesting question. The 12 valve Alfa engine is about 11.5 kg lighter than the 24V engine. I will have to contend that a 12 valve engine with a single turbo is very near the weight of a 24V engine.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kens View Post
Interesting question. The 12 valve Alfa engine is about 11.5 kg lighter than the 24V engine. I will have to contend that a 12 valve engine with a single turbo is very near the weight of a 24V engine.
What do you estimate the 0-100km or 0-60m times ?
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I don't know its weight,it should be as heavy as the 2,0l engine...(the workshop manual declares 1430kg with no fuel,oil,water...about 1500kg on the road)
It is too soon to estimate the 0-100,now i'm running with 0,5 bar,i tried some rolling road (50km/h in II [email protected] rpm -190 in IV [email protected] rpm) in 500 meters,but it is not time for the final map with 1,2 bar,already broke a diff and perhaps the whole gearbox(noises),i have to fix it before running with no problems...

@Kens: I could sell to you another 2,0 V6 TB engine I have in my garage...

Video coming soon!
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Did you modify the stock rods?
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Yes...lightened (-26g each),balanced,polished,with new big end and small end bearings. New OE bolts...

You can see them in the pictures...
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I also have a set like that
Was afraid of using them especially in the turbo motor
I will rather put them in the 166 3.0
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There is a tuning garage here (BMG Motors), which used std rods for his 3,0 v6 24V taken from a 166. The setup of this engine is: forged pistons, steel rings head gasket,Turbonetics T67,Mectronic ECU,Getrag gearbox...610c,8200rpm,68kgm...and stock conrods!
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