GTV Front Mount Intercooler - Alfa Romeo Forum
You are currently unregistered, register for more features.    
Tuning & Upgrades Discuss performance enhancements for your Alfa Romeo

Reply
 
Thread Tools
(Post Link) post #1 of 34 Old 30-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Hi guys!

Toying with the idea of putting a front mount intercooler in my GTV...

Don't want to take the bumper out to get measurement for intercooler sises...can anyone help me?...I want to know the size and if anyone else did it...

Can also be helpful if you can point me some older posts of GTV's with this..


thank you
Portugues is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Status: zzzzzzzz
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 37,009
Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Not sure about the fitting of a front mount, but I can tell one intercooler to avoid.

It is called a PACE and they are utter rubbish. Both inlet and outlet are on the same side, and the design causes massive turbo lag, due to it being restrictive.
symon is offline  
(Post Link) post #3 of 34 Old 30-04-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Ohh...I know what you mean...

Like the one I have because it comes originally with AR GTV TB!!!!!....
Portugues is offline  
Status: zzzzzzzz
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 37,009
Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Pro Alloy do one for the Fiat coupe and it is highly recommended.

I am sure you could make it fit your car.
symon is offline  
(Post Link) post #5 of 34 Old 01-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Pro Alloy seems to have nice intercoolers....don't know what difference does it make for the intercooler to be slimmer or thicker!
Portugues is offline  
Status: zzzzzzzz
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 37,009
Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Portugues View Post
Pro Alloy seems to have nice intercoolers....don't know what difference does it make for the intercooler to be slimmer or thicker!
I don't know to be honest.

They might actually make one specially for your car, although I don't have a link to their website so that you can ask them I am afraid.
symon is offline  
(Post Link) post #7 of 34 Old 01-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Hopefully someone will come in and post something to enlighten us...
Portugues is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Well, When I was hotting up my TB I used an intercooler from Forge Motorsports. In theori, it was slightly bigger in volume than the original one. After examining it and comparing it with the original one, it seemed that the original one had more efficient cells due to the shape that "catches" the air that is passing through in a better way. The one from FM would make the cooling air pass through much easily and thus cool the cores less. Well I hope you understand
SO I also had removed the whole AC system and that gave some more space for the front mount Intercooler. As you can see in the pictures, I had to also modify the metal bits of the cars frame a bit so the hoses will have enough clearance on the sides of the intercooler.

PS: I would instead start by builidng a new downpipe and primary pipe that is in 2,5 ( or 3) inch that also eliminates the first catalytic converter under the oilpan. That gives more HP per spent £. but you maybe have already done that?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FMINT.jpg (20.9 KB, 82 views)
File Type: jpg Forge.jpg (18.0 KB, 43 views)
El Toro is offline  
Status: zzzzzzzz
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 37,009
Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Toro View Post
Well, When I was hotting up my TB I used an intercooler from Forge Motorsports. In theori, it was slightly bigger in volume than the original one. After examining it and comparing it with the original one, it seemed that the original one had more efficient cells due to the shape that "catches" the air that is passing through in a better way. The one from FM would make the cooling air pass through much easily and thus cool the cores less. Well I hope you understand
SO I also had removed the whole AC system and that gave some more space for the front mount Intercooler. As you can see in the pictures, I had to also modify the metal bits of the cars frame a bit so the hoses will have enough clearance on the sides of the intercooler.
That looks like a nice piece of kit.

Do you mind me asking how much it cost?

One of those would go well on my car.
symon is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Sorry to let you down on that
I did this as a part of a bigger project for six years ago so all prices etc are gone out of the memory bank.
I went all the way with bigger/upgraded turbo, bigger custom made exhaust, front mount IC, open air filter, Open dumpvalve, Squadra chip, AC delete etc etc. Above this the suspension was powerflexed, Eibached, bilsteined and OMP-ed, also the brakes were upgraded..... Damn I miss her.
El Toro is offline  
Status: zzzzzzzz
AO Platinum Member
 
symon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: United Kingdom
County: Oxfordshire
Posts: 37,009
Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Thats ok mate, I understand these things are difficult to remember a few years up the road.
symon is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Yaninnya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Jersey
County: -
Posts: 163
Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Toro View Post
After examining it and comparing it with the original one, it seemed that the original one had more efficient cells due to the shape that "catches" the air that is passing through in a better way. The one from FM would make the cooling air pass through much easily and thus cool the cores less. Well I hope you understand
It looks for me that you understand the IC efficiency completely wrong. The flow (in both ways - inside and outside) shoud be as low as possible.
Or you mean that Forge IC don't have additional vanes inside air channels which are not affect the flow. That means it is just naff design.
Jan
Yaninnya is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yaninnya View Post
Or you mean that Forge IC don't have additional vanes inside air channels which are not affect the flow. That means it is just naff design.
Jan
I guess that is what I meant to say. Not the flow of the charged air trouhg the IC but the ambient air flow between the vanes that is supposed to cool the metal. In this particular matter, the original one is better. So at lower driving speeds the original one uses the ambient air to cool the metal vanes better than the one from Forge.

Last edited by El Toro; 04-05-09 at 21:21.
El Toro is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Maybe this Picasso drawing of mine can make it easier
The yellow parts in the picture, the original IC has better design on those parts which makes it more efficient at low speed.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IC.JPG (11.4 KB, 343 views)
El Toro is offline  
(Post Link) post #15 of 34 Old 05-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

haven't done nothing to the car...every thing original besides center muffler that still exists but is more free flow...

maybe exhaust will come first...but IC I think is a must...But now you got me thinking in if the investment is justified...you didn't seam very happy with your IC!...I thought that center mount would catch much more air therefore cool down the air more...and if the IC was little bigger also a plus for air cooling...
Portugues is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Well, you can still go for a front mount one, but of better quality than the one I had. I just wanted to point out that not all front mount IC.s are better than original ones.
El Toro is offline  
(Post Link) post #17 of 34 Old 05-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

I think that the original one can be a god one, but it's in a small hole and inlet and outlet are in the same side...inlet and outlet in the same side doesn't help air flow a bit
Portugues is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

If it is of any positive help, I can report that many GTV TB-s are being run with original IC set ups on track day events without any problems due to hot charge air. If you are not doing any major tuning then the original one is fine 99,99% of the time.
I ran mine for on whole season of track events with standard IC without any problems.
The biggest constrain for the turbo is the first bit of the downpipe, a moulded piece that has a two "dents" in it, see pictures. After this the pre cat under the oil pan is a big "efficiency thief".
What I have learned from my experience, this is how I would do it if I did it again.
1- Exhaust
a- make a bigger bore primary pipe and remove the pre cat.
b- use single flexpipe and better flowing cat.
c- after the cat converter, build a straight exhaust system all the way to the rear subframe and then just a 30deg bend towards the standard tailpipe position. Only two, small, free flow dampers. One unde the rear seats and one at the end.
2- Chip ( Squadra Tuning without any doubt)
3- Upgraded turbo
4- Air filter
5- Better IC

As you can see the picture of the stadard IC, there are two ducts leading ambient air through it from the front of the car. These ducts are conical, that is the area closest to the IC is bigger than the area the air is comming in, this helps creating som vaccum to ease air flow for cooling the metalic cores. I agree that the standard IC makes the air turn around 180degrees, but a front mount one will give longer pipes and longer turbo lag time. Allways pros and cons.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg downpipe1.jpg (16.6 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg downpipe3.jpg (16.4 KB, 27 views)
File Type: jpg downpipe4.jpg (16.9 KB, 29 views)
File Type: jpg originalic.jpg (18.9 KB, 47 views)

Last edited by El Toro; 05-05-09 at 16:30.
El Toro is offline  
(Post Link) post #19 of 34 Old 05-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

The big problem of standard IC is the inlet and outlet on the same side!

Thats the main reason in changing it...that and if you get a front mount one the hole where the IC was could be a air intake to the filter...therefore cooler air coming in the filter...

Thank you for your advice... I will follow it...I think I'll start with the exhaust first...

GTV has 2 flexpipes right before the cat...Why only use one like you said?...Whats the problem with the flexpipe?

Isn't the last Damper enough, do you need bought?

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB - 1996

Portugues is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

You can just bolt an open air filter directly to the rubber hose comminf from the MAF, There will be plenty of cold air under the wheel arch cover.
Flexpipes... well the smother the piping is the less is the turbulence and backpressure. And It is hard to find a sports cat converter with two inlets.
The damper in the middle is to kill resonance at low rpms. but ofcourse, one can do without also. I used only one damper in the begining while still using the standard cat converter and it was not a big issue.
El Toro is offline  
(Post Link) post #21 of 34 Old 06-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Any idea the size of you IC used in your GTV?

Did the inside of the Bumper need to bee changed?

Whats the difference between a slim IC and a thicker one?

Portugues is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

The IC came from these guys, it was the type 04.
Forge Motorsport | Alloy Fabrication

no modification on bumper thanks to removing the AC radiator which gave som extra space. should you keep the AC radiator then you have to cut out some parts on the inside of the bumper.
Only modfication was on the sheet metal on the sides of the IC inorder to make way for the hoses.
One important thing is that the original compressor housing of the turbo already has a 90deg bend towards teh original IC. This bend will complicate the hose drawings to the front mount one.
Not really sure about the thickness and how it effects the cooling efficiency. Ofcourse if all other sizes are identical then the thicke IC is bigger.
El Toro is offline  
(Post Link) post #23 of 34 Old 07-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

The Ac is a keeper at least for now...


What if a get a "Y" shapep tube...in one end I'll put the flexpipe and the other the original Cat?
Like that can eliminate one flexpipe...
Portugues is offline  
Status: -
AO Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Sweden
County: Västra Götaland
Posts: 59

Member car:

GTV 3,0 24V

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Don´t know if the Y pipe will do such a significant difference.
The only reason for the double flexis and inlet on the cat converter is because Alfa wanted to use the same cat converter as on the N/A V6 models.
So when do you roll her in to the garage and start her make over? Be reminded that all new cursing words you invent while doing this should be shared with us
El Toro is offline  
(Post Link) post #25 of 34 Old 07-05-09 Thread Starter
Status: -
AO Member
 
Portugues's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Portugal
County: Porto
Posts: 152

Member car:

AR GTV 2.0 V6 TB

Re: GTV Front Mount Intercooler

Don't really know what you meant with the last sentence!

Don't know when I'll do this...Don't think it will soon!
Portugues is offline  
Reply

Go Back   Alfa Romeo Forum > Supported Alfa Romeo Models > Technical & Vehicle Assistance > Tuning & Upgrades

Tags
front , gtv , intercooler , mount

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page



Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome